This conversation between Ilyas and Dr. Christopher Dietzel takes a look at Technology Facilitated Sexual Violence (TFSV) and the Gay and Queer populations. Dr. Dietzel speaks to how consent and TSFV is intimately linked, with a special focus on Men who have Sex with Men (MSM). Dr. Dietzel lays out the current landscape of TFSV, and how it may change in the future. Dr. Dietzel also speaks to the complexity of being a man, and how men can use their sphere of influence for helpful rather than harmful ends.
Christopher Dietzel, Ph.D. (he/him) is a postdoctoral fellow whose work explores the intersections of gender, sexuality, health, safety, and technology. Dr. Dietzel works with the iMPACTS Project, the Digital Intimacy, Gender, and Sexualities (DIGS) Lab, and the Sexual Health and Gender (SHaG) Lab, and he is a co-investigator on Digitally Informed Youth (DIY) Digital Safety. Dr. Dietzel’s recent projects focus on LGBTQ+ people’s experiences with dating apps and social media, and he investigates the barriers, harms, and violence that people face when using these digital platforms.
Dr. Dietzel’s work has been published in English, French, Spanish, Russian, and Indonesian.
Ilyas
Hi, welcome to “YES, ALL MEN!” – a podcast about masculinity and sexual violence. My name is Ilyas and I’m fairly new to the gender based violence field. I really want to know what my role is as a man within this space. And over the course of this series, I will talk with experts who can help me figure it out. If you’ll listen alongside me as I have these conversations, hopefully we can all come out with a new perspective.
Now, let’s jump in.
Ilyas
Awesome. Well, welcome back to “YES, ALL MEN!” Today’s guest is Doctor Christopher Dietzel. And Chris, can you introduce yourself?
Dr. Deitzel
Yes. So hello. Thank you so much for having me today. My name is Doctor Christopher Dietzel, and you can call me Chris and I use he/him pronouns. I am a postdoctoral fellow at Concordia University, in the DIGS Lab, which is the digital intimacies, gender and sexualities lab. And I also do projects with DIY digital safety DIY standing for digitally informed youth, digital safety. And my research I’m really interested in understanding the intersections between gender, sexuality, safety, health and technology. So I’m primarily interested in how people use things like social media and dating apps and how people stay safe online and in person.
Ilyas
Yeah, I’ve been reading through some of your literature and it’s really fascinating. And so maybe to frame the conversation, can you explain a little bit about what technology facilitated sexual violence is and how it’s different than it’s kind of in person counterpart?
Dr. Deitzel
Yeah. So as I mentioned, I’m a Co-investigator on the DIY Digital safety grant and we’re really interested in understanding technology facilitated sexual violence among youth in Canada. So our project is looking at those who are aged 13 to 18 and we’re focusing right now on five different areas of the country, Nova Scotia. Ontario, Quebec, Alberta and Yukon and in this project we are interested in technology facilitated sexual violence. So obviously that’s kind of a mouthful of a term. It’s not something that you hear every day, but technology facilitated sexual violence. What that essentially means is sexual violence. So thinking about harassment, harms could be sexual aggression. This could be sexual assault. But thinking about the different types of violence that people experience in a sexual manner that is facilitated by technology. So what that means is how digital technologies like devices like smartphones, computers, laptops, etc. As well as other digital devices like GPS, smart technologies and other technologies. How those make sexual violence easier or how it makes that, how it exacerbates people’s experiences of sexual violence.
Ilyas
Yeah, I think. The way that you frame that is really important too, because it’s not just with like. The the direct interactions right because you mentioned GPS there as well and that is part of the technology facilitated sexual violence cause that creates a whole new realm of like tracking and all of these other things that go into it. Right,
Dr. Deitzel
Exactly. So when we’re thinking about how technology has really been integrated into our everyday lives. You know, and when we when we think about these types of things, we often think about like how smartphones we can take pictures all the time or take videos or like share our location. And of course that adds a level of convenience in terms of how we connect with one another and how we can use different platforms and apps and things. But then it also means that people can take advantage of that. You know, if they manipulate those systems or if they use those systems to exert control, coercion or certainly harm or violence on other people. So GPS is an example of that. You know, if we’re taking the idea of stalking, for example. Before smartphones, before you could share your location, you know stalking wasn’t. How we stalked in the past is now how we would stock today because it’s a lot easier if somebody does share the location. If somebody’s posting updates about where they are, if they’re traveling, if there’s, you know, having like a status update, there’s many different ways now that you could both stalk somebody online as well as stalk somebody in person because of technology and the affordances that are granted through technology.
Ilyas
Yeah, that’s such an amazing point and things to look out for and we’ll we’ll touch on that a little bit later in the conversation. But I want to really focus in on gay and queer populations because that’s the topic for today. So what makes gain queer populations unique when it comes to technology, facilitated sexual violence or TFSV.
Dr. Deitzel
Right. Yeah. So we’ll definitely, let’s use the the acronym TFSV for technology facilitating sexual violence, so. As I mentioned before, TFSV in response to your previous question, you know it’s it’s what makes TFSV different from in person forms of sexual violence is that it’s easy to create and manipulate. It’s fast and easy to to essentially use devices, so this impacts all people. It’s not just queer and like gay and queer populations who are impacted by TFSV, but because of their identities. That being gender or sexuality, people who might be already victimized because of their identities can then become increased targets because technology makes this type of violence easier. So in that sense, as I said before, the F in TFSV stands for facilitating. Queer and gay populations as well as other marginalized populations, can be higher risk for experiencing TFSV. So there’s been a few reports about this. Stats Canada, for example, Statistics Canada. They had put out a report recently where they looked at rates of cyber victimization among people of different genders, and they found that non binary youth in Canada reported a higher risk of experiencing cyber victimization in other people. Other reports have found that trans people in particular report serious harm. Such as like trolling, hateful messages, cyber stalking through their use of technology. And certainly I can get more into statistics if you’re interested in hearing about that, but because of people’s marginalized genders, sexual orientations, and then certainly other aspects of their identity as well, such as race, ethnicity, indigeneity, ability, class, all of these types of things can factor into the marginalization. And then in terms of TFSV, the victimization that they experience, so it’s in these ways that gender, sexual orientation and other aspects of somebody’s identity can have compounding impacts in terms of how gay, queer, and LGBTQ+ people in general experience.
Ilyas
Mm-hmm. And maybe you can send us some of those literature pieces and we can kind of share them afterwards, along with the episode. And I I think what you really touched on there is like the idea of intersectionality, right. Like someone’s social location being like, where all of their identities meet? Right. Yeah. And so I know you’ve done a lot of research specifically.
Dr. Deitzel
Yeah, yeah.
Ilyas
On men who have sex with men, so can you talk a little bit about that specific social location?
Dr. Deitzel
Yeah. Yeah. So for those who aren’t familiar with the word intersectionality because it’s great that you use that, that essentially means this is how different aspects of people’s identity cannot be separated from other aspects of their identity. So even though I might identify as a man, there’s other aspects of my identity that come into factor. That also influenced, as you said, your social location. So then when we think about MSM, so men who have sex with men, MSM, when we think about their experiences in terms of their social location. So because they have a male identity, they’re afforded certain privileges and opportunities in life that people of minority genders. Or marginalized genders, such as women, non binary folks, etc. Men have more power and privilege in society than other people, so that is granted to MSM. However, MSM also identify, of course, as sexual with their sexual orientation. They identify as minority since they’re not straight. And so in that sense they can also experience marginalization because of their sexual orientation. So this is a perfect example of how intersectionality it’s important to take intersectionality into consideration, because with MSM on one hand they have power and privilege because they’re men, but on the other hand, they can be marginalized and victimized because of their sexual orientation.
Ilyas
Yeah. And I know that this plays a big role in kind of how rape culture plays out as well, right. And we, we’ve kind of explained rape culture in some of our posts and in some of our previous previous discussions. But can you, I know you’ve done some research on how rape culture kind of manifests, especially in like dating apps and and. And its form of technology facilitated sexual violence among kind of especially men who have sex with men on in that sort of platform. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Dr. Deitzel
Yeah. So it’s a good question. And just to clarify for those who are listening today, rape culture is a term that’s used to refer to how sexual violence has been ingrained more so in society. So instead of just thinking about incidents or individual experiences of sexual violence, rape culture looks at how systems and institutions within society have normalized, condone, perpetuated and overlooked individual experiences to which then experiences of sexual violence. The, how we think of sexual violence has been normalized. So in response to this question, then when we’re thinking about the experiences of MSM and other LGBTQ plus people, rape culture can kind of come about in a few different ways. First, as I kind of mentioned before, when thinking about MSM specifically. They might not necessarily be targets within a rape culture, because rape culture tends to target women or others because of their gender identity. But because MSM have power and privilege as men within society, they can be implicated within a rape culture, even if they may not necessarily be impacted by it. That said, there’s not a ton of literature that has really looked into how MSM can experience rape culture kind of in a non heteronormative way. So if we’re thinking outside of this frame of women are the ones who experience sexual violence, then of course we know that MSM can experience sexual violence as well. And so this is where my research has come in to kind of experience to to investigate how MSM and other queer populations can experience sexual violence more systematically, systemically. Excuse me more systemically. In ways that goes beyond individual experiences. And so kind of as I talked before, one way in which rape culture can manifest is certainly through people’s use of technologies. So again, thinking about TFSV and I did a study about this where people talked about their online and offline experiences and shared incidents that had happened to them through technology. Another way that rape culture can manifest, particularly among MSM and LGBT less people, is in terms of feeling societal pressures to have sex. Certainly MSM gay men. They tend to be overly sexualized, and there’s a big emphasis on sexuality, and understandably so. But then what it means is that these individuals might feel pressure to have sex. They might think they always need to have sex. And so in that sense they might not. It it can be difficult for individuals then to differentiate what is consensual sex and what is non consensual sex. It can be difficult for them to identify themselves as victims or to identify if an incident of TFSV has occurred because. Of how highly sexualized their experiences are and might be normalized, and so there’s been research that has shown that MSM, gay men and other queer populations don’t always see themselves as victims precisely because of these discourses and understandings of what rape culture is, or who tends to be kind of the pictured idea of of a victim of sexual violence.
Ilyas
There’s a couple things that I really like to dig into. The idea that like that.
Dr. Deitzel
OK.
Ilyas
So and I know in society men are kind of seen as like the sexual pursuers, right? And and like heterosexual relationships, the woman is seen as the gatekeeper. And so in, like, gay relationships like that, that dynamic is very different. Right. And that’s something that you you’ve touched on in your literature and like terms of. Like that, how that gets expressed is different and so that I could see how that could tie into many kind of instances of sexual violence being unacknowledged, because if someone sees themselves as like someone who is pursuing sex actively and who like in the kind of myth of masculinity, can never be like satiated like, there’s there’s a hard time to accept that there might have been something non consensual happening happening there, right?
Dr. Deitzel
Exactly. And so on one hand, you know, there’s great opportunities for MSM gay men, queer populations to define their own consent practices. You know, they don’t necessarily have to follow this gatekeeper model that you’re referring to in terms of, like, a heterosexual man pursuing a heterosexual woman. So there’s a lot more fluidity, and in some senses liberation for queer populations to play with consent negotiation. And to to kind of free themselves with these constraints of of heteronormativity at the same time, however, that that complicates things because the scripts that people follow in a heterosexual sexual relationship, where the man pursues a woman that’s not necessarily the case when you have two men, two women, queer people in general. So on one hand, it it can be very liberating, very freeing. But on the other hand, it can also complicate things if you don’t necessarily know who’s supposed to do what, what counts as consent, what doesn’t count as consent. And then, of course, when technology comes into play that can complicate things further as you’re sharing photos back and forth, talking about what you want to do in person. And of course using technology to facilitate those interactions.
Ilyas
Yeah. And I know you talked about in your research how especially like Grindr like the dating app is a very like people see it as a sexualized space. So like the the idea of like sending pictures and receiving pictures like it, it gets murky there in terms of like where where the consent lies like is it implicit, is it explicit? And like all of those sorts of dynamics come into play too right.
Dr. Deitzel
Exactly. And so when thinking using Grindr as an example, because the way the app works is different than Tinder and so excuse me audience, I’m just going to explain this slightly in case you’re unfamiliar with how Grindr works, but Tinder, when you open the app and you swipe left and right and when you swipe left, you’re indicating no, you’re uninterested. And when you swipe right, you indicate you’re interested. If both people swipe right, then you can then it opens up a conversation and you can chat. Grindr is not that case. Grindr is a grid and so when you open the app you see the first I believe it’s 200 people who are in close proximity to you, so this is again where GPS comes into play. So that as you’re moving around the city or as you’re moving around the world, your grid will change based on who is in proximity to you. Of course there’s different filters that you can apply, so you can choose like age. You can choose. Well, there’s a bunch of different ones, but anyway, more or less you can have access. You can start a conversation with anybody around you. Not everybody has a face profile. There’s blank profiles or people will put different images up, but nonetheless you automatically have direct access to everybody in proximity. And So what this means then is you can immediately send a message to anybody. And since Grindr tends to be a more anonymized space compared to Tinder, where you have your name and photos of yourself. Grindr. You can really put whatever information or no information at all if you so decide. And so as people then are starting chats with another individual, they don’t have to have the consent of the individual in order to start that chat. And then they can share or send whatever they want immediately. Of course, this is doesn’t always mean that it’s going to be a problematic interaction, but what it means is then coming back to this question of consent and sexual violence is. Is every interaction always consensual? Does the person who’s initiating the the conversation have the consent of the person who’s receiving that invitation? And then, of course, as you go through the chat, you know, have you checked in to see does the person want to receive photos? Do they want to have a sexual conversation? The other thing with Grinder, and this goes back to my previous point in terms of the highly sexualized nature of the queer community is grinder tends to be that a highly sexualized space as well. So what people will do is they assume that everybody who’s there is are for sexual. Purposes. And so they’re again because of the culture of the space, because of the norms of the people who use that space, there are assumptions made about the consent of other individuals. So yeah, that was a that’s a long answer. I’ve definitely written about this a lot. There’s a paper that I recently published called Clickable Consent, where I specifically talked about that where some people. When when they connect to Grindr, they think about consent as connecting to the app, so they. When they log in, they see themselves as and others as consenting to everything happens in that space versus other people who will think about consent is continuous, and so they have to check in with other people, either through explicit or implicit means. So explicit being like would you like to share a photo? Can I see your face? Would you like this, that and the other thing. An implicit being more behavioral cues and contextual cues.
Ilyas
Yeah. And I think it it leads into a a discussion around like. Digital consent versus in person consent too, right? Because in in terms of like being able to set something up like there’s the idea of like, do you do people go through consent before and there’s like a a series of expectations or is there that continuous expectation of consent is there like? Like a difference between like setting something up and then like actually enacting it. And I know you’ve written a lot about that and like the complexities around it as well.
Dr. Deitzel
Right. And so that’s the other thing is when we even transition off of online interactions to in person interactions, then that can complicate things further. So if somebody says, yes, you know, if you’re you’re arranging a meet up to go and have sex with somebody, you know, if you’re talking about what you would like to do and then you actually meet in person, some people see that online conversation as as a very explicit, and not explicit sexually, but explicit in terms of like binding conversation. So there were some folks that I had talked to, one had referred to this as like a contractual form of consent or that whatever you discuss online has to happen inerson and so if some people apply that to their in person sexual interactions, then they won’t reassess or renegotiate consent once they meet in person, they’ll immediately start with this sexual interaction without verifying anything further. Other people, however, might think about consent from online to in person as a double consent. Or they renegotiate things. So even if they said yes to stuff online, they’re gonna have to say yes to things in person. Another form of that could then be thinking about. Like a like a tacit consent is the word that I use where you would not. You kind of take things for granted, essentially is what it means so. Where things are a bit more blurry and you might renegotiate some things, but you might not renegotiate other things.
Ilyas
Yeah. And I imagine the the roles here and like the. The difference in scripts or the re the recreation of scripts is really an interesting piece of it as well, right? Because that tacit consent like especially in like a like hyper sexualized population or one that like has this expectation put on it from either themselves or the people around them or. Whatever the kind of like structural pieces versus individual pieces are like, that idea of like negotiating consent in that space versus like with active versus kind of tacit consent, especially like in person or that idea of renegotiating like it can become like. Complicated from from what I understand right.
Dr. Deitzel
Exactly. And So what what can be complicated with this is not only going from offline or online to offline, but also the fact that you don’t necessarily know which paradigm other people are operating in, like I might be operating with contractual consent and you might be operating with a tacit consent. And so then this can create problems where if somebody is applying one understanding of consent to their experience and somebody has another understanding of consent. This is then where problems can happen because if I don’t think it’s necessary to check in once we’ve discussed everything online, but you feel that for your own safety or health or whatever the case may be, comfort, you know, if you want to check in, then this is where I don’t necessarily perceive what I’m doing as sexually violent. But the person could be experiencing it as sexual violence. And so this is where conversations about consent and checking in and communicating and having this mutual understanding among partners is very, very important because even. Even as we’re using technology to connect with one another, it doesn’t always necessarily mean that we have a shared understanding of the same experience.
Ilyas
And so when that when that comes into play that that leads to kind of a very complex interaction. So how can someone like make sure that they’re staying safe when using technology when engaging in these spaces or when kind of like being able to have these sorts of interactions both like online and offline? So that they can make sure that, like the people, everyone’s on the same page and that things stay kind of… Safe
Dr. Deitzel
So yeah. So of course that’s that’s the goal, right? We want people to stay safe and be happy and be comfortable in their experiences. So first and foremost is talk about it. You know, like, if if you’re unsure, you can ask the question, you can share your experience, say where you’re coming from. You can talk about why you’re feeling this way and what you hope to get out of it. That might seem a bit kind of basic in terms of advice, but honestly that can go a long way because if you’re able to clarify this with the other person that you’re meeting up with or the other people, then it it it can really save a lot of problems. So yeah, what I would also recommend is you know, as you’re interacting with somebody, don’t feel like you need to rush into things. You should trust your gut. You should know what your boundaries are. So if you don’t feel comfortable meeting up immediately or if you only feel comfortable meeting up in certain places or in a certain time, whatever the case may be, you know, trust. Know what makes you comfortable and safe, and then follow that and apply that to your experience. As we’ve talked about before, you know how technology can come into play is very important as well. So be aware of the information that you’re sharing, be aware of. I I I don’t, I I hesitate to say some of this because I don’t want to paint this idea of like stranger danger that every person’s going to be terrible. But you know, once you put your information out there, it is out there. So if if you have concerns, you know, don’t don’t feel like you need to rush into things, don’t feel like you need to share stuff. You can also of course use technology to your benefit so you can message friends, you can share your location with people that you trust. You can use video chat or voice messaging features in order to assess how comfortable you feel with someone before you meet in person. Of course, if you have any type of concern, you could use a block or a report feature which is inherent to many of these applications. What you should also do is like you can recognize that there’s that, perhaps by using different apps they can give you different affordances. So like some of these apps for like Tinder for example, you can’t share images, but if you want to share images or voice messages you could go to another app. But of course then keep in mind if your app jumping if you’re moving from one platform to another. You’re giving them more. Information. So a thing to be aware of as well is the context that you’re in. So like if you meet in person, don’t necessarily rely on the other person for transportation. If you’re going to like a bar or a cafe, you could talk to somebody there so that you even have support in person. If you, you know, you can just let the the bartender. You know, like, hey, I’m here on a date. Maybe check in with me after a bit. There’s also a verification tools within the apps themselves if you wanna kind of assess somebody. But I want to emphasize that, you know, like verification on on Tinder or Twitter or now X and other platforms you know, in order to receive that check mark, it doesn’t necessarily mean that the person is trustworthy. It just means that their image reflects who they are. And so although verification can be a helpful part of the process, it’s certainly not. The best assessment, or the only assessment in terms of how to evaluate whether someone is trustworthy or safe, so just keep that in mind as well. Yeah, I think those would be some of the general tips and suggestions that I would have. Of course, if if there’s folks who are interested in learning more, our DIY digital safety project, we have some resources available on our website. So I certainly encourage you to check that out. And then as we continue in this podcast, I actually have a few other suggestions of places people can go. If they’d like to learn more about other organizations and resources available to them.
Ilyas
Yeah, if you want to share those now I’m. I’m open to it.
Dr. Deitzel
Sure. Be happy to. Yeah. So, as I mentioned, for DIY and digital safety, we have infographics. We have fact sheets. We have public reports. These are available. We have these on a bunch of different topics about like knowing your rights, sharing nudes, legal information and. And some of our infographics are available in like 13 languages, including Indigenous languages. We’re really trying to make sure that this information is accessible. People in terms of like technology related safety issues, there’s Tech Safety Canada. There’s also stopncii.org. So NCI being the non consensual intimate images. So that’s a great organization that provides help to to folks looking for that. There’s also a digital first aid kit. So if you go to digitalfirstaid.org, they can give you information about how to deal with some of these problems. For kids, if folks are under 18, there’s organizations like Project Arachnid, there’s Media Smarts, which is kind of oriented towards kids, parents and teachers. And then there’s Take It Down, which is from the National Centre for Missing and Exploited Children. So those are all resources related to technology. Of course, if somebody’s experienced sexual violence or harassment. There’s the National Sexual Violence Resource Centre, and there’s also one called Right To Be, which is available around the world, and they have a bunch of different resources as well. If you’re looking for mental health support, there’s Wellness Together Canada that provides free resources for people in, like in terms of talking and other services. There’s also 988 Canada. So if you or someone you know isn’t experiencing an is experiencing an immediate crisis or suicide related concerns. You can always contact 988. And then, since we’ve been talking about MSM, queer people, LGBTQ plus folks, I just want to share a couple of identity specific resources as well. So one, there’s the LGBTQ digital safety guide from GLAAD. So this is information about how to use different platforms online and ways to stay safe. If you identify as LGBTQ+. There’s also the LGBT National Help Centre. Interline is another organization you can go to as well. There’s also the trans lifeline. So again, in the same way that 988 or Wellness can together, Canada provides free counseling support. There’s also the trans lifeline that is specifically available to trans, non binary and gender diverse people. And then for folks who identify as First Nations and are into it, there’s also the Hope for Wellness helpline, which is free and available to those populations as well.
Ilyas
Thank you. That’s a. That’s a big list. And if you send it to us afterwards, we can. We can post it as well so that people don’t have to, don’t have to memorize it. But I while you were while you were sharing those like there was a a consistent theme that came up to me at least in some of the the overarching kind of pieces of the technology facilitate sexual violence which is. The idea of non consensual intimate image sharing and so when we’re talking about technology, facilitated sexual violence. That’s a big one that comes into like the news fairly often. There’s been the, like, the laws that have been passed so that people can get like some sort of compensation for if someone has done this to them and there’s a lot more kind of protection for people nowadays. So I’m wondering if you can speak specifically about that and and maybe like what can be done if someone experiences something like that or how how maybe kind of structural factor might play into it.
Dr. Deitzel
Sure. So yeah, so and you’re kind of alluding to this. So yeah, so the non consensual intimate images and if we’re thinking about technology facilitated sexual violence. So NCII are then TFSV and for thinking about these issues a bit more broadly, this is kind of been in the news recently where there’s been cases in Canada. From fall of 2023, where there were young women or young people who had been targeted at schools, there was a case of somebody. Who had died by suicide because of sextortion. So this is a problem that’s impacting young people and not just young people. This is also impacting folks who are adults and folks who are celebrities. So with with artificial intelligence or AI, there was, there’s been big concerns around, like deep fakes and nudes that have been shared. So recently there was Taylor Swift, where they’re they had created manipulated images of her sexual images of her that were widely circulated on social media and online. And so. You know, all of this plays into we’re seeing. We’re seeing TFSV becoming a bigger and bigger problem because of people’s access to technology and the way in which they can manipulate images, share images and certainly not receive the consent of the people who would be implicated in these in in these incidents. So if you or somebody you know of has experienced TFSV. As I mentioned, there are all of these resources that are available to you. What you can also do, of course, is you can report on the platform. Many, many websites and apps nowadays have an ability to report. Of course, this doesn’t necessarily mean that the person. It doesn’t necessarily hold the person to accountability. It just means that the image or the content will be removed so you can report on a platform you can block somebody on the platform if you know someone. If you know the person who’s done it, you can also ask the platform to remove the content. Google, for example, what you can actually do is you can write to them and you can ask for them to remove images from their search results. The thing with all of this is when you’re relying on a company and international big companies, I can’t promise that this they’ll respond to your concerns immediately, but nonetheless it’s it’s an important step to take. So that content isn’t shared further if you know the person who has done it, you could contact them and ask them to remove it. But of course, if you’re already being victimized, that’s probably not the best thing. For every individual. Some sites actually offer this option, called a hash. So what you can do is you can have your intimate images essentially tagged so that it’s so that it shows that you are the owner of the images. It doesn’t help if something has already been shared, but if you’re looking for an extra layer of protection in a proactive way. You can look into hashing an image and there’s more information about that online. I’m I’m not a legal expert, nor am I a lawyer, so I’m gonna offer a few other suggestions. But please, I say this with, with the caveat to know that this is not legal advice. This is just some general information about the resources available to you. So one is here in Canada, it’s actually against the law to share or threatened to share some of these images without their consent, and it’s built into the Criminal Code of Canada. So if you’re looking to like to to file a legal case against someone, there are aspects through the Criminal Code of Canada that you could pursue. There’s also civil law that’s available so many provinces actually have an intimate images protection act that is available in BC, British Columbia, just to actually implement is the latest province to implement one where they just put this into effect at the end of January 2024. So in Nova Scotia, they have a resource called Cyber Scan. There’s the Canadian Centre for Child Protection in Manitoba and there’s the Civil Resolution Tribunal and BC. So again, there’s different resources based on the jurisdiction, the province or territory, but many of them do have an intimate images protection act that people can use. Lastly, I would just like to say in addition to thinking about like the platforms or legal directions that you can take in order to address experiences of TFSV is seek help from friends, family, talk to peers, talk to members of your community. Know that there are other people who can help you when you need help and support, and know that you’re not alone. It’s really important to understand that there’s there’s other, it’s. Perhaps not good to know, but it it can add an aspect of solidarity to know there’s other people who have experienced this too. So don’t be afraid to to seek out help. Take care of your mental health. Take care of your physical health, and then you can also go to sexual assault centres and other local community organizations who provide support as well.
Ilyas
Thank you that that will help a ton of people, I’m sure. And to bring it to the kind of overarching theme of this podcast because we’re we’re really exploring masculinity and how how that kind of intersects with, with sexual violence in many different ways and so. What what do you think the role is in all of this space, so whether it’s men who have sex with men, whether it’s technology, facilitated violence, whether it’s like intimate image sharing, like, how do you think that masculinity intersects with this in general? And that that’s a really big question. Maybe I can kind of hammer down a little bit because it’s it’s. It seems like men are are implicated in like a majority of the like cases of sexual violence and so. When we’re looking at masculinity, there’s a lot of different types of masculinities and some are helpful. Some are hurtful and there’s like, all in everything in between. And so, like, what does it mean to be like masculine and try and like not engage in all of this stuff because there are certain like norms around masculinity, especially what they call in, like the literature, like hegemonic masculinity, that is really about like. Power and exploitation and all of these things and some of those have permeated into popular society in terms of like like if someone thinks of a man, they might say like James Bond, and they have, like, there are plenty of, like, womanizing aspects to that and kind of things that aren’t helpful and so. How? How is masculinity currently like interacting with these sorts of things? So whether it’s technology facilitated or in person sexual violence, and how, how, how do you frame it in terms of like your literature on kind of whether it’s consent or whether it’s interacting with rape culture that you can kind of like? Work against that, either in subtle or more explicit ways.
Dr. Deitzel
It’s a great question and you know that would certainly be you could have a whole another podcast episode about masculinity. So the the the first things that come to mind is, well, there’s a few things that I want to address. Is 1 and. And you noted this as well is that unfortunately in the research shows that men are most likely to be perpetrators. And there again, there’s there’s information from Statistics Canada that I can share with you as well as other sources that show that. Both in terms of female victims as well as in terms of male victims, it’s most likely for men to be a perpetrator. What we do know is that in terms of masculinities, then, there is this idea of of like power and control and influence and desire, where oftentimes an individual might put their own needs or their own wants ahead of other people. And so we can think about this as being selfish. You can think about this as mean mean. You know there’s different adjectives to to kind of characterize that, but nonetheless, this is where people have pushed back that they get against that. To understand that masculinity is not just about being dominating or being mean or inflicting harm on someone, there are healthy and positive forms of masculinity that still recognize the power and influence that men are afforded in society. But then find ways to which that to use that power and influence in more positive ways. So this is where, as you noted before, if we’re thinking about hegemonic masculinities that kind of takes this like normative, like more traditional approach to thinking about how men might influence and use their power and influence to to influence to create harm or discomfort or other things versus like positive forms of masculinities. Where like men can use that for good. And so this is where I when we’re thinking about, like queer populations. And this goes back to what we’re talking about with intersectionality is folks can then recognize that they sit at this intersection where they have both power and privilege as well as can be victimized or marginalized. And so it’s really up to the individual what they can do with that power. And then of course, use that as they see fit. So I I certainly encourage those who are listen to reflect and not just in terms of masculinities, but in terms of other systems and institutions and relation. And all those types of things is I I certainly encourage people to think about how they can use their social location for good and check in with other people so that they’re not perpetuating harms. And so they’re aware of both the intentional and unintentional hurts that might happen through their relationships.
Ilyas
Thank you. Yeah, I know it’s a big question to answer.
Dr. Deitzel
But it’s a good question. It’s a really good question.
Ilyas
So as we’re talking about men trying to find ways to use their masculinity. So you mentioned like the the power that comes along with like the position of being a man and like not necessarily like the power in terms of searching for dominance, but the power in terms of like being able to have like an effect on your on your life, on your world, on the people around you like. If you were to use like your your knowledge of like the scripts that are out there right now and let’s say you were to. To write something that would make it more helpful for for men to in terms of like a script that they could follow to be able to have like a positive effect. Like do you do you have an idea of what that would kind of look like, like either in broad strokes or more specifics?
Dr. Deitzel
Yeah, I think what I would suggest is. You know the this is a fantastic question because what we’re really seeing in society today and part of this is influenced by technology. Part of it is influenced by conversations about intersectionality. And there’s politics that come into play and all sorts of things. But we’re seeing where some men in society are feeling like they’re being targeted, as are being characterized solely as a perpetrator, or solely as someone who who facilitates harm, and so. I just I. I want to. We have to be aware that on one hand. These that might be true, like statistically, and that might be true in terms of like historically, but that doesn’t mean that every individual man is a bad person and it doesn’t mean that every individual man is a perpetrator. What this really? I just got a quick phone call. Sorry about that. So what this means is that. There is what we’re kind of seeing is this desire for maybe men are a bit lost where they don’t want to be characterized or misunderstood as somebody who’s like a bad person. And so in this sense, I think it’s really important to recognize that, you know, folks are are dynamic individuals that have good sides and bad sides and that it’s really up to individuals to to manage then those positive and negatives of their own personality and the sphere of influence that they can impart on other people. So In terms of how to kind of promote more positive masculinities, I would just really encourage men to kind of embrace that vulnerability. And I know that this can be like a very scary, difficult thing for people, especially when society tells men to be a certain. To act a certain way or be a certain thing, but I think it’s really important then to to to take a step back and and talk to people around you and kind of be a bit kind and patient with yourself as well so that you’re. Recognizing who you are as a, as a dynamic individual, and recognize that you can use your power and influence for good. And so you don’t have to succumb to these. You know these stereotypes that are placed upon men. I think there’s there’s a lot of opportunities to break that and to do good for yourself. And for others around you.
Ilyas
Thank you. I think that that’s an incredibly hopeful statement. I I am a man and I’ve been questioning that role for a long time in terms of like how it’s enacted and how it’s how it’s been put out there. And I I also have worked with people as a counselor where I I’ve like supported them and trying to figure out like what does a man mean to them? What does being a man mean to them? And there are a couple of things that you put on that you mentioned there that I think are really helpful. It’s like using your sphere of influence in a in a positive way because every everyone has some sort of like effect on the world, whether it’s like to like their family, whether it’s to their partner, whether it’s to a friend. Whether it’s like the person walking down the street. Yeah. And so like being able to recognize that, like, even if someone doesn’t feel like they’re part of, like, a bigger system, that they, their actions have an effect and they can have positive actions or they can kind of create more hurtful actions and it’s not always that kind of dichotomous, but there’s often times like this feeling of like people are helpless and don’t have an ability to make change and so. Like in in your literature, have you have you noticed how people might kind of push back against like rape culture? I know we talked about the ideas of like consent being like continuous and like being able to work on ways to not fall into technology facilitated sexual violence or in person, sexual violence, and so have you noticed any kind of like arising scripts that are like masculine in a way that’s like helpful in this space?
Dr. Deitzel
Yeah. So I mean there’s a, there’s a bunch of stuff that’s been published, certainly in academic literature, but you can also find this, you know, in terms of like publicly accessible videos or blogs or different things. Yeah, there’s these ideas of, like, positive masculinities where, you know, people don’t have to succumb to these hegemonic ideals or like these toxic ideals. And so there’s a specific term and it’s just keeping me at the moment, so maybe that’s something you I can follow up with you later. But yeah, there’s there’s certainly going to push towards that because you know, although men might be stereotyped or expected to act one way or do one thing, it’s that’s it’s not. We don’t want to pinhole men into those types of roles, and there’s certainly a lot of opportunities to break that and do good. So yeah, there’s a lot of stuff available online and certainly as we’re like yet as we like now actually to bring this back to this point about technology as we’re seeing like social media influencers and other people get a lot of attention. Like political figures and others get a lot of attention for kind of having this bravado, this kind of casual, carefree, I’m gonna do what I want because I’m a man. You know, there’s others who are pushing back on that and recognizing that no, you’re you’re still part of a society. You’re still part of a community. Your actions and words have consequences. And you can you can take ownership over of that in a way that helps you recognize as you as you just put it, your sphere of influence. So that in your day-to-day interactions. So you can put more good out there.
Ilyas
Yeah. Yeah, I think that that framing is really helpful. I I know that there. There have been like a lot of people who feel like targeted because of, like, the discourses that are going on. And I I think the way you you put that really the way it resonated with me was that like people can have this effect on the people around them that like contributes to a positive community. Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Deitzel
Yeah. And and in that sense, you know, I I do recognize the discourses that are happening right now. And so that goes back to. Your question about like systems and institutions, you know that can certainly have an impact on on on how individuals perceive themselves and how they expect themselves to interact with one another. So I think in that sense, you know, we have to be aware of both what we’re told and then what we feel. So that we don’t feel so that, people aren’t kind of caught into, they’re not pushed into those roles, that they can kind of be who they want to be and and certainly in the best, most positive type of way.
Ilyas
Yeah, and. I think maybe to close, I’ll I’ll talk a little bit about like the idea of responsibility, cause I I know that like some, like some of the pieces of, like, hegemonic masculinity, are definitely problematic. But to relate to pieces of it, having grown up in a system where it’s like very prominent is like the idea of, like, taking responsibility for your actions. Cause, right, I think that’s also part of, like, the discourse around masculinity, not that it’s only about masculinity or that it’s only like male presenting people or people who define themselves as masculine, who can do that. I think that one big piece of it is being able to to take responsibility for yourself, for the like the society you live in for, like the people who you interact with and, I think being able to frame it that way, if like someone a man can take responsibility for himself, for himself and like use that for the betterment of the people around him. That’s it’s like a I think a really huge take away message that I’m I’m taking away from this just in terms of like. Yeah, the the fact that people aren’t. People aren’t like two-dimensional like you said, like some people might feel kind of targeted or whatever it may be, and but that a whole 3 dimensional person can take responsibility for like their location for themselves, for their who they are in society and go forward and try and make it better as opposed to making it worse because we do know what what things are helpful. We have definitions for sexual violence. We have definitions for technology facilitated sexual violence and it’s it’s easy to say don’t do that, but that doesn’t always work apparently. Yeah, thank you. I I really appreciate this conversation, Chris. I I’ve learned a lot talking to you.
Dr. Deitzel
Thank you. I’ve I’ve really enjoyed it too and I I really I really appreciate how you summarized it. I think that’s a very good take home message. And I fully agree with what you said. So thank you.
Ilyas
Thank you for listening to this episode of “YES, ALL MEN!” If you would like more information about today’s guest or the topics we covered, please visit the show notes section on our website – vestasit.com. For general information on sexual violence topics, take a look at our Resource Library, which explores many aspects of the gender based violence world.
Take care and bye for now.
www.mcgill.ca/definetheline/christopher-dietzel
Sexual Violence Facilitated by Dating Apps: the Experiences of Men Who Have Sex with Men
Technology
Tech Safety Canada
StopNCII.org
Digital First Aid Kit
MediaSmarts
Project Arachnid (for under 18)
Take It Down, from the National Centre for Missing & Exploited Children (under 18)
Sexual violence and harassment
National Sexual Violence Resource CenterRight To Be
Mental health support
Wellness Together Canada
Kids Help Phone (for under 18)
988 Canada, for immediate crises or suicide-related concerns
Identity-specific resources
GLAAD’s LGBTQ Digital Safety Guide
LGBT National Help Center
Interligne
Trans Lifeline
First Nations and Inuit Hope for Wellness Helpline
Do you know someone who has been sexually assaulted, harassed, in person or online? What you do next matters.
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An overwhelming number of individuals who experience gender based violence tell someone. Are you that person? Your solidarity can be the difference between silence and strength, between fear and freedom. Your reaction and words impact how we categorize what happened to us, it impacts our mental health and it impacts whether or not we take action.
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Alcohol and rape are closely interconnected. In at least half of sexual assaults between acquaintances, alcohol was used by the abuser, the survivor, or both. Heavy alcohol use is also a major predictor of future rape. People who have a history of being sexually assaulted who are also heavy drinkers are 700% more likely to experience another assault than light drinkers who haven’t been previously assaulted.
We will use gendered language throughout this article, and that is not by mistake or omission. Alcohol and rape is a particularly gendered issue. Most of the literature cited on the topic in this article explores how alcohol puts men more at risk of being perpetrators. Moreover, one study found that nearly all types of substance use put women at more risk of being sexually assaulted. The same was not found for men.
Men can be survivors of sexual assault, women can be perpetrators, and all genders can be involved in any role. However, when it comes to alcohol and rape, men are more likely to be the perpetrators. Moreover, the literature examined for this article also shows women more likely to be survivors of sexual assault due to drinking.
When all of this is taken together, it paints a grim picture of the role alcohol plays in sexual assaults against women. But what is the connection between alcohol and rape?
Alcohol has an inhibitory effect on the brain. This essentially means that it shuts down certain parts of our functioning as people drink more. This often starts with what is called higher order thinking, which includes complex, rational thought. As someone drinks more, alcohol starts to impair the person’s ability to control their motor functions. This means that they might be less able to fight off an abuser if in a state of heavy intoxication.
It is through this method that many abusers try to use alcohol to facilitate their assaults. In other words, alcohol and rape go together partially because an abuser can use the fact that someone is inebriated to commit their act of sexual violence. This is what is known as incapacitated/drug-alcohol facilitated rape, or AIR.
One thing to keep in mind is that some studies found that any alcohol use is associated with higher chances of being assaulted. This may be because, especially if somebody isn’t regularly a heavy drinker, abusers might take advantage of their lower tolerance for alcohol consumption. A common tactic that abusers use is giving a woman strong drinks (i.e., high alcohol by volume content). Abusers may use the advanced state of impairment to commit AIR.
There is a complex relationship between alcohol and rape. Some studies have found that people who were victimized in the past may use alcohol to cope with those emotions. This, unfortunately, leaves them at a higher chance of being assaulted in the future. And, when a woman is drinking, she may suffer from something academics call “alcohol myopia”. This means that alcohol limits the amount of information a survivor can process, which might make them miss risk factors from their abusers.
It is important to remember that it is not the woman’s fault for being abused. This is the case regardless of whether or not they have been drinking. Oftentimes, women who were drinking at the time of an assault can blame themselves. For others, they might fear negative reactions from those they tell. Sometimes, they don’t feel like they will be believed at all. However, we’ve talked about consent in the past, and a perpetrator who commits AIR is guilty of rape. Full stop.
80% of sexual assaults occur between people who know each other. But, when alcohol is involved, sexual assault usually happens between people who are less familiar with one-another. These could be strangers, acquaintances, or casual dates. They are also more likely to take place at parties or bars while, when alcohol is not used, sexual assaults more commonly occur in the survivor or perpetrator’s home.
Men in particular tend to associate alcohol with sexuality. They see women who are drinking as more “available” for their sexual advances. Alcohol use in men is also linked to increased aggression and misreading social cues. This can mean that they might interpret a woman’s actions as being “flirty” when they do not. And, when coupled with the aggression, they use alcohol to feel more justified in sexually assaulting a woman if they feel like they have been “led on”. This is backed up by studies showing men are more likely to endorse acting like a man who commits a sexual assault after they themselves have drank alcohol.
This isn’t to say that all men who drink, or all men who drink alongside women, will commit sexual assault. There are certain factors that are linked to a man being more likely to commit an assault. These are:
Sexual assault prevention programs need to emphasize the relationship between alcohol and rape. Creating awareness around things like alcohol myopia can help women to be mindful of the risks that may be around them. Creating an awareness about the intoxicating effects of alcohol, and how it might make it harder for women to fight off an abuser, will be helpful to integrate as well.
Being able to target excessive drinking can also be helpful in preventing sexual assaults. One study found that women who were given a resistance training program that included information on alcohol were nearly half as likely to have experienced a completed rape than a control group. The control group was also nearly 300% more likely to have faced an attempted rape than those who got the intervention.
Additionally, being able to get treatment for binge drinking and substance abuse can be helpful for lowering the risk of future sexual assaults. Everyone should keep the substance use spectrum in mind while exploring their relationship to alcohol.
We’ve talked about how hegemonic masculinity and gender role stress can play roles in sexual assault. Specifically with alcohol, men need to understand that because a woman drinks does not mean she is looking for sex. Men who hold traditional gender role beliefs need to understand how to communicate more clearly and understand that no does in fact mean no. Men need to let go of the rape myths and rape culture that indoctrinates them into becoming abusers.
As a man, I know that social drinking can be a fun way to let off steam. But, being aware of how much someone is drinking can be a helpful way to avoid the negative effects of alcohol. Keeping in mind that alcohol is never an excuse for rape, men who drink heavily are more likely to perpetrate sexual assaults. Also, men in general tend to misinterpret women’s actions as sexual interest when intoxicated. One study has shown this affects about 2 out of 3 women in post-secondary settings, so a man who moderates his drinking can make a big difference in the lives of the women around him.
Lastly, for men, there are some basic pieces of understanding that need to be laid out. Now, many men may know this already, but some definitely need to hear it:
Welcome to the “YES, ALL MEN!” podcast brought to you by VESTA.
Since starting work in the sexual violence prevention field, Ilyas has embarked on a journey of learning about hegemonic masculinity and examining what it truly means to be a man. Through his perspective as a straight, mixed race man, he will be exploring why all men need to be a part of sexual violence prevention. Through his conversations with other men, women, and relevant scholars, Ilyas also hopes to find a more positive version of masculinity that can help men and women alike to escape from the ills of gender based violence.
Guest: Strength of Two Buffalo Dale
Guest: Dr. Christopher Dietzel
Guest: Dr. Nicole Jeffrey
Guest: Rick Goodwin
Guest: Lucrezia Spagnolo, Founder/CEO of VESTA
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This conversation between Ilyas and Strength of Two Buffalo examines masculinity as a fire that can either warm or harm those around it. Strength of Two Buffalo talks about the teachings he has had about being a man, and how he has challenged some of the social scripts that can lead to expressing manhood problematically. Strength of Two Buffalo ends by encouraging those who are interested in talking about masculinity with those around them to ask two questions: What does being a man mean to you and how has that changed over time?
Strength Of Two Buffalo is White Ribbon’s Workplace Engagement Manager. He is Kanien:keha’ka (Mohawk) from Six Nations of the Grand River. For the past 37 years Strength Of Two Buffalo has had the opportunity to learn from an extremely diverse community of Elders such as the Haudenosaunee, Anishinaabeg, Cree, Lakota and Inuit spanning across both Canada and the United States.
He has a formal education in the field of Social Services, graduated from the Bachelor of Ed. in Aboriginal Adult Education at Brock University, completed the Men’s Indigenous Social Work Program from Muncey Healing Lodge and Addictions Counselling Certification through Polytechnic Institute Six Nations.
Strength received certification in Kanawayhitowin, a campaign created to address intimate partner violence within Indigenous communities. Strength has co-led MMIWG2S front-line protections advocating for federal bodies to prioritize the well being of Indigenous women, girls and two spirit people. He worked alongside Indigenous women and allies to advance the implementation of “Reclaiming Power and Place: The Final Report of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls” recommendations.
Strength Of Two Buffalo has been honoured by a Woman’s Domestic Assault survivors’ group and named an honorary woman which gave him the privilege of entering into safe spaces. A title Strength values and holds very close to his heart.
Strength has focused his efforts in supporting community by engaging (w)holistic and balanced living by using traditional Indigenous knowledge to reinforce critical thinking practices addressing Justice, Equity, Diversity and Inclusion. Strength has worked over thirty years doing his best to role model the actions of Respect, Reciprocity and Relationship applying the teachings of interconnectedness and Skennen (peace). We would like to welcome Strength Of Two Buffalo to the White Ribbon team.
Ilyas
Perfect. Well, welcome back to Yes All men. Our next guest is strength of two Buffalo Dale. Strength. You mind introducing yourself?
Strength
Absolutely. [Mohawk]. I am Strength of Two Buffalo, Mohawk from Six Nations territory. Along with all of the Mohawk territories, because we’re Mohawk nonetheless. So thank you. And today I’m working with White Ribbon and the idea of stopping gender violence. That’s our goal.
Ilyas
Yeah, and it it seems like a very kind of like natural tie in to be able to to work with you for this episode because we’re really hoping to explore a lot about masculinity and how intersects with gender based violence. So I’m I’m really grateful that you, you and your organization are able to take the time to to talk today. And to to start us off, let’s kind of go with a big question. So like, what does it mean to be a man like in today’s society or in the context we’re living in now?
Strength
That is such a loaded question, right? Because there’s there’s many different ways that that we can define what it is to be a man. There is the sometimes cultural aspect of what it is to be a man within culture. And there’s so many different cultures in this world that, you know the definition of what a man is or what a man is supposed to do or be, can alter. So, and that’s I can walk through that the. The growth or the way that has it has evolved. I know that from earlier years being a man was being in charge, being control have no emotions. You know, you know, don’t cry. Just make sure that you’re tough enough and, you know, make people respect you and make them respect you if necessary to be tough, to be strong and to be the provider, to be the king of the house. And you know, all of these things were very important and what it meant to be a man. In early 1900s. And and you know and and in culture sometimes still today in some cultures is still the same way that it has to be a certain way within the culture. So being a man and the understanding from what I have grown up with being a haudenosaunee of the the Confederacy of Six Nations and. It it speaks more to our responsibilities and and the responsibilities of a man in our communities is to be kind, compassionate, approachable. Strong enough to get work done. You know we we’re still expected to do some out outside work. That’s what we’re supposed to do. But coming from a matriarchal society, I don’t have to be the boss. I’m just a part of the wheel. A part of the community that has a voice that has a say and to not overstep that boundary and trying to take over somebody else’s space. So being a man can have many different things, but what we’re hoping for with White Ribbon and doing the work to end gender violence and end the patriarchal demands upon men is to have us understand our gentler side, our side of being approachable. In the traditional understanding, we have a position in our communities which is called a fire keeper. We keep. We tend to the fire of the community. If there’s a ceremony, we have a big fire there, you know. And when I say a big fire that’s part of the the the contradiction there because a big fire can harm people. And men in general have that fire within us. Like we’re just. Ah, let’s get this done. Let’s go. You know, we hear a power tool. We all turn our heads, you know, we hear engines running and, you know, just those natural parts of being a man being male is what we have. So when we have a fire and we tend to that fire. In doing so, we make sure the fire is approachable. We make sure the fire is warm and comforting, but not dangerous enough to harm people even just by standing around it. And that’s what I have learned as being a man is to be that very comforting fire, so that. Those around me can stay warm. They can be comforted, they can have circle. They can, you know, have space that’s safe. And I think that’s why we as men are supposed to be doing is creating that space just within ourselves so that when we go to a space, the energy that we exude. Also speaks to that the idea of peace.
Ilyas
Thank you. And there’s so many pieces of that that I really want to touch on, but I want to start with the idea of that, that imagery that you used of the fire of fire being manhood. And if it gets too big, it can become harmful. And so can you talk a little bit about what those harms are? So like when that kind of fire starts to burn people, essentially.
Strength
Absolutely. And you know, I I knew this would come up when I have a story that. Touches personally for me because we live in a colonial society. Colonization is taking over. It’s doing what it’s doing, but we’re trying to get back to being who we are as as just people as human beings and losing the the cultural demands or the colonial demands. I should say I have a story. Which I call colonial dad. Because I have 5 girls, I have a wife, I have community of women around me, but when I spoke with my little girls one day I was in Colonial died mode. I am working. I have to get his done. I have to get that done. I have to get this done and you little girl need to get your shoes on. So we can go, we have appointments to get to, and I totally negated and didn’t pay any attention to my child because I was stuck in the idea of being the man, getting everything going. And let’s just get this done. And again I got stuck in that mode and when I stopped for this the third time to mention to my child. You know, get your shoes. Come on, let’s go. Let’s go. We gotta get this done, babe. And I turned around and she was crying. And she’s sitting on the floor. And I was like, what is? Why are you crying? What’s going on? And I realized at that moment that I was being colonial dad. I was not being comforting. I was not being, you know. I wasn’t being anything towards kind to my own child. And you know how it hurts the other gender genders is we become forceful. We we become that fire. That’s really way too hot now. My hot fire trying to get in line with what I needed to do harmed my child because they were in a panic. Because they didn’t want to see me upset. When I stopped and I said OK, let’s get back to this and I apologized right away and like, oh, my gosh, I’m sorry, little one. How can I make this right? Because we don’t have. I’m sorry in our in our language, there’s no such thing as. I’m sorry. And then we move on. And The thing is done. It’s how can I make this right? We have to make this right. This has to be made right. So I spoke with my little one. And her problem was she couldn’t find her shoes. And there I am being colonial dad, demanding that she gets them on and she can’t even find them. So we took the moment and we we walked around and found her shoes, you know? And that goes a big story. A big part of that story is that we, as men do that a lot outside of. You know, outside of our homes, at work, at the grocery store at, you know, wherever we are, we can have that. That gowl to us or that fire that gets too hot because we’re stuck in an idea of what we need to do, rather than reminding ourselves that we need to remain being human beings and a part of a bigger circle than the one that’s raging within us. You know, so how it harms everybody is there’s fear, there’s intimidation, and it for the first little while when I started getting these teachings, I had to go into the mirror and start looking at my face because. I needed to know how to make a smile. I needed to know how to carry a face that represented and exuded kindness and peace because my eyebrows were always curled in my, you know, and it wasn’t because I was angry. It was because it was focused, but focused and angry kind of looked the same when I was in the mirror. You know, so I had to really pay attention to how how the energy of who I am exuded outward and to be very mindful of how I’m positioning myself physically. Within the expressions upon my face, how my body actually is and the language that I used was very important and that’s how we can harm those around us, is by not being aware of ourselves.
Ilyas
Yeah, the thing that resonated with me a lot there is like the the idea that you wanted to warm your your child in this instance, like you wanted to be that fire with warmth and that got so concentrated and you got so caught up in the moment that, like, it turned into, like, the hurt. And I know that something that resonates with me too is like when I get focused on something and I want to get something done. And you I’m trying and trying and trying and then like I kind of reach a point where I become. Fiery and or too fiery. And yeah, that that I think speaks a lot to the idea of, like, how masculinity can kind of go to this extreme, but at its core, it’s it can be something that’s nurturing and warm and and positive, and hopefully we can explore that a little bit more in in this situation. But you touched on a couple terms there that I wanna talk about or kind of go a bit further into mainly the intersection of kind of patriarchy and colonialism, because I think those are words that people hear or have heard but don’t necessarily understand the full context of or in. Even the context in this situation or this, uh, this conversation.
Strength
Well, colonialism has spoke of is its root word is colon. And colon is something that digests. So colonialism is to digest other societies and to create one society which would. You know, some would say comes out as poop. Because that’s what the colon does. It creates one mass from whatever is being digested. And that’s where colonialism and patriarchal societies have a top down approach. So there has to be somebody in power in their patriarchal society. And normally it’s a man because that man has the power they have, the strong enough to intimidate. They have the strong enough to harm. And they’ve been taught not to have emotions, so harming someone is less likely to attach to the person because, well, they shouldn’t have been there anyway. So they should have just done as they were told, or they should have. It’s always an outward projection, you know, it was went 1919, 16 when women were able to. Vote in Manitoba. I believe it was or one of the planes here in Canada. And then 1918, they were given the right to be themselves to sort of say the. Is it? The right to vote across Canada was in 1918 and in 1929 they were actually considered persons. Within the structure of there. The Canadian law, you know, so when you think about how much time it was before that, where men had rule. You know, and that’s what it it boils down to patriarchal society and patriarchal understanding is male run with the idea of control power and you know absolute dominance because that’s what was necessary. And that’s what was created as being a man. And when men run this is how they do it. You know, and coming from a matriarchal society, it’s more a rounded understanding of everybody’s role and responsibility, the women because they give life because they’re the only ones able to give life. Are held in a higher esteem, not in a higher level because we’re all even in community, but they’re held in a higher esteem because. Without them, we can’t create life and with them being in a bad way the life that’s being created will have an after taste of harm and after taste of hurt and when they’re making their choices and their decisions for our communities, for our children’s, for ourselves as men. It’s probably not best to have that in their decision making, you know? So that’s how we work towards getting rid of that patriarchal standpoint and really evaluating where these laws rules policies are coming from. And how we can adjust that.
Ilyas
Yeah. And I think it wasn’t until decades after women were granted personhood. I mean, I said granted personhood, but that seems kind of a weird thing to say about, like, an actual living human being, it wasn’t until decades after that that it was actually put into law that a husband could sexually assault his wife. Cause it before that it was just like it was taken for granted that the that it couldn’t happen, which kind of brings us to the the topic of like sexual violence and gender based violence. And so as we’re talking about these types of masculinities, that kind of get too hot and kind of burn the people around them. What is that intersection with gender based violence or sexual violence?
Strength
And you’re talking from a masculinity standpoint.
Ilyas
Yeah. So essentially like what, what are the pieces of masculinity that kind of feed into these sorts of social harms and individual harms?
Strength
There’s there’s two things that I I go back to in this and one of them is the biggest, of course, is control. Once we lose control and it doesn’t necessarily just have to be in that relationship, but anywhere in our lives, when we lose control, we panic or we create something that brings that control back her. So I think it gives me that control. If as a child I lost control of what I’m allowed to eat, if I if I was starved, if my diet wasn’t enough for us. As I grow older, I have control over what I eat and I will eat whatever I want whenever I want, until I’m obese and sick because I have the control. I have that power. That’s mine, and that’s where the harm can come from. When it and that intersectionality in relationship. Is to have control rather than relationship. Because relationship is sometimes confused with ownership or the power to the power over. And it’s not in the idea of respect in those relationships. Respect and my understanding that was given to me by my elders is [Mohawk], which is I have the responsibility to help any and everything reach its fullest potential. The colonial aspect and patriarchal aspect of respect as you do as you’re damn well told. And you will respect me because I’m older than you. You will respect me because I have worked this position a lot longer than you have. You know, and maybe you didn’t do a great job at it, but you did have this position longer than me, you know? So it’s about respect and it’s about trying to reach that in relationship and how to have that respect is to have both sides equally engaged and safely engaged. So having loss of that control. And knowing that somebody else can control their own space sometimes creates that the harm that comes from from the men because it’s an in-bred thing that we’re supposed to have control. My dad’s talked about it, you know. Don’t cry. Don’t do this. Don’t do that. Be a man. Man up. You know all of those comments that come to us that we’re supposed to have and take control. You know? And then the next part of it becomes purpose. What is my purpose as a man and if we don’t understand that, then it goes right back to control. My purpose is to have control and be in control and and doing that it can create very dangerous space because they end that fire within us becomes too big. It comes too hot. It exudes itself forward and harm. And shoots from us as men towards the opposite gender, or any gender that is out there today.
Ilyas
Yeah. So I can definitely see how those two can really feed into this idea of, like, power over instead of power with because what I’m hearing about the the circle or the community or that kind of like duty to the community is like a power with. So you have like power with your community. Members, you have their responsibilities to them and together you can create something bigger than any one of you individually ever could, right? Yeah, and. I think that. With that in mind, men who have this power over mentality are actually missing out on a lot like they’re missing out on, like, not just like the genuine human relationships that are out there, but like the actual ability to create something kind of lasting and meaningful. So can you. Can you talk a little bit about the effects that this sort of masculinity? So this like purpose of having control over others kind of what are the negative effects on the man himself who holds that?
Strength
The elevation of negative action definitely comes from that, because if I’m allowed to get away with this one action, then the next action or the elevation of that action, I should be able to get away with that as well and continue and continue and continue until the courts are involved. The police are involved or none of them get involved and I just lose who I am because now I’m stuck in this whirlwind of what I have created because of my manliness. They can create that space and you know, we lose who we are. We lose our ability to go back to being kind, to being genuine, to being approachable, because now everybody sees me as this, and I better stay this or else I’m going to get chastised by the other guys. I’m not going to be able to sit with the men anymore, and they’ll think less of me so. And now we have to continue that cycle. And I have found us a lot of times that when we sit in that circle with those men and we share these stories, they they tend to throw their heads back and go. Ohh. Me too. I I wanted to get back, I wanted to be kind. I I how do we stop this? That’s, you know, because it’s a cycle that was created outside of who we are. We’ve only adopted it because it’s what we were told. That’s what we were taught. You know, so critically thinking, having our mind controlled by us rather than those around us is very important to get away from that harming behavior. But it can go into a lot of things. You can go into divorce and go into no relationship with your children, your your daughters. Might lose that relationship with you. You can go to jail. There’s also, you know, other harm from other men because you may have crossed the line. You know, just by having that extended masculinity, which has become harmful.
Ilyas
Yeah. I think when when there’s conversations like these, I I don’t often hear about the harms to the men themselves, because I think that’s something that if people were to realize that holding these ideals actually, like hurts them, that they’re actually, like holding themselves back from having, like, a. A more meaningful existence or a more connected existence, or a sense of purpose that isn’t derived from, like just tyrannical control like that’s that’s really freeing in a way. And you mentioned that you have these conversations with men and that they they talk a little bit about. Being stuck in this sort of I know the. That white Ribbon talks about the man box a lot. So can you talk about those sorts of conversations that you’ve had with men and and the idea of the man box.
Strength
Yes, yes.so the man box it was. It’s designed to bring out all of those activities. The mindset of what it means to be a man and and in everybody’s different perception. And there’s so many different levels inside og that. You know all of the things we’ve mentioned so far, the harm anger in control. I need to be the boss. I’m not allowed to cry. I’m not allowed to have emotions. All of those things are in that man box. And when we go through that, we try to see how many men can actually live up to that. You know, where do you see this going? If this is who you are and this is who you’re choosing to be, where do you see this going and when do you think this should stop. And it’s really awesome to hear the answers when they when they come forward with their answers, it’s like, well, no, I don’t really like that. When I’m hearing it like it when it’s in your head, it sounds like one thing or when you say it out loud, it’s something completely different. And you’re like, well, OK, now that I’ve said it, you know, now what do I do? And that’s where we have to make that choice as men to one to hold ourselves accountable and. And my culture, the the warrior is not the one that knows how to fight the best. The Warrior is the one that’s able to challenge himself. And to create a better person and a more confident person rather than what it was before. So to. To get right down to it, to be in that healthy space is where we want to be. You know, it’s just hard now to challenge ourselves because what if I do this? What happens if I go home? What is my dad going to say? What are my uncle’s going to do? And you’re really ridiculed. By those around us, and how do we stand true to who we want to be? It’s a it’s a very hard, hard place sometimes because we are sometimes born into a very masculine, patriarchal lifestyle.
Ilyas
And I feel like. For some people, they feel like they may lose their status as being masculine if they do some of the things that are outside of that man box and so. Like what? What is like manhood? So like it? We’ve talked about masculinity. We’ve talked about, like, this idea of being a man. But like is, is there you you kind of said that it’s culturally bound that there’s like these ideas of kindness and that there’s these ideas of like being able to like have a positive responsibility towards your community. But when we’re talking about different kinds of of manhood, like is. Is a man just like anyone who feels like they’re a man? Like, is that is that all it takes? Do is there? Do they have to kind of ascribe to a certain type of masculinity is masculinity and manhood the same like these are? Yeah.
Strength
It’s a. It’s a very interesting question because, you know, when I I mentioned earlier, you know, we hear the power tool or an engine roaring. And that, you know, we are we we just heard because we’re men. But when I’ve said that in the company of women, they’re like what? I don’t like power tools. You know, I don’t like the sound of a good revving engine. I like the 420. I like the 350 and 305, you know? And I’m like, oh, OK. Then I have just been. Put in my place. Right. But you know, in that idea of manhood. Nowadays, with the openness to gender and the gender fluidity that we’re we’re now seeing more relevant and more in in your in your face. It’s out there now, whereas before it was hidden. It’s it’s a beautiful and freeing idea that’s come forward. To know that masculinity doesn’t just sit within men but masculinity. It is always that fire. It is always about, you know, how do I jump? How does that reach in within me? And how do I exude my strength? I got the strength that within us and that is what I feel is masculinity is not necessarily only our man trait. It’s a human trait because women have that as well. The non binary have that as well you know. So when we think of the male masculinity though. That’s where it turns into that big extreme fire, and to really be mindful of that and how it harms our not only ourselves but those around us.
Ilyas
Yeah. And I think, yeah, no, I I think that’s that’s an amazing way to capture it cause it’s a, it’s an incredibly complicated subject, right? Like it’s it’s hard to define or put any one definition. On like masculinity or manhood, cause like there’s so many different types of men and men themselves can change over time, right? Like a man can still be a man and express more traditionally like feminine traits at one point and then express more traditionally masculine traits at another point and like. He can still be himself in different situations, but not necessarily kind of with the same. Expression, if that makes sense, yeah.
Strength
Absolutely. There’s a it’s a very sliding scale when it comes to how we present and who we are as men or as male, because there’s different genetically speaking, I am male. Spiritually speaking, I am both. Because I have the balance, from what we understand, as our women traits, and we have what are considered to be man traits. You know, and to be fully, completely balanced, I need to be in touch with bot. We have because the woman has the the ability to give life, it said and and culture that they are within love and empathy and compassion. The men, because we have that fire. We are in strength. We are in assertiveness and those are our natural abilities. Just naturally given to us. When we combine both, that’s when we have our good mind. And a good mind was told to me by one of my elders that actually they asked the question, what is a good mind? And everybody came up these really great answers and he went how come nobody said it’s one that works. And a mind is definitely best when it works.
Ilyas
Mm-hmm
And when it works and when we choose to exercise what we choose and what we think to choose. It’s best to do it from the idea of being balanced between both the natural inherited gender traits of love, compassion, empathy, strength, assertiveness. And even sometimes you know that the brutality that’s needed when you’re out and you’re getting ready to fight a bear because he’s chewing on your leg. You know, you need to get real tough at that. Point no matter who you.
Ilyas
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Strength
Are, but if we have both sides of who we are. Intact. Then we become very balanced. I can be assertive in my in my decision to say no, but I can also be compassionate at the same time as saying no. You know, so to have both of those together is what creates the fully rounded man or woman to be able to do both, and that’s why we have our good minded.
Ilyas
Yeah, in, in counseling, we talk a little bit about the wise mind. So when you bridge kind of like the analytic side with the emotional side and it sounds a little similar, although I understand there’s differences. When when you’re talking about the the kind of masculine and feminine energies like and these these traits and you saying that you have the the balance of both. I know in in some Indigenous communities there’s this idea of two spirited people. Is that is that similar? Is that different?
Strength
2 Spirit has really gone through a lot of controversy in the last couple of years in the idea that we don’t have two spirits.
Ilyas
OK.
Strength
We only have one, but we have a balance of both within that one. And if you’re if the two spirited thing were to be considered in that aspect, that is what I speak of. Was I have only one spirit. This is only me here. But within my spirit and within the energy of who I am. I also have male. And feminine traits that are that are combined so that I can be approachable. I can be kind. I can give that the tender heart to my little one and not. Of the male side interact at that time because I can be just kind and loving and you know then when it’s bedtime, time for bed. I can still be kind, compassionate, and take my child to bed. Say no, it’s bedtime. It’s time for bed. Let’s go. We get there and I sing a song to them. To comfort that, you know, so to have both sides interact at the same time and to be fully rounded within both of those I think is one of the best ways for the male masculinity to be softened and to be brought to a better place.
Ilyas
I think that’s an amazing way to look at it because I think that’s something that, like everyone, can kind of resonate with, like regardless of kind of background or. Kind of belief systems. The idea that, like you can have this compassionate side to you and also have this kind of fierce side, the courageous side, and not to say that they’re kind of dichotomous because it takes courage to be vulnerable. It takes courage to be compassionate. But to be able to have that balance of like being able to to show like ferocity in the face of like danger and also show compassion in the face of like hurt and harm. And so as we’re talking about kind of gender based violence and harms, like how can men kind of face the harms that that masculinity has created with that compassion cause I know some people feel. Feel like they’re losing out, or they feel like othered or targeted. When when these conversations are happening and I don’t think that’s anyone’s intention, I think. Like I think from what I’ve gathered from this conversation, there’s a real need to like turn towards that with compassion and kind of engage with that more kind of feminine ideal. And so can you. Can you talk about how how men can kind of face these harms with, like, with their masculinity, but also with that, that sense of, like, understanding and compassion?
Strength
Again, I think it just comes right back to being self aware. The hardest part for myself and from my teen years, where being masculine and tough and everything was the way it was supposed to be to being a father, totally shocked me from, you know, how am I supposed to be all tough and everything with with such a beautiful little child? They’re crying, you know. And and then the control comes in and we start raising our voices at a baby. And I say, you know what? How how do we work this out? And the best way to work this out is to be able to be mindful of what we’re doing, what we’ve done. And not seeing it from my own eyes, but seeing it from the eyes that have seen it. When I when I’m in a mood and I’m walking through the house, I’m making a coffee. There’s something simple, but I’m in a mood because I’m not trying to fix my truck or the car and it’s not working. I’m I’m pissed. I come in the House and I and I closed the cupboard and my wife said, whoa, what’s wrong? I’m like nothing’s wrong. Nothing’s wrong because, well, why you slamming cupboards? I can then go into the confrontation being a man like you’re not taking this from me. I’m. I’m just doing what I’m doing. Or I go back and I reevaluate what I did. I really take a look at, you know, how did I close that door? Did I slam it? No, I didn’t slam it in the idea that I wanted to break the door off the hinges. But that’s not normally how I close the covering door. Normally I would take the handle and I would push the door closed, end of story. There’s no Big Bang, dishes aren’t rattling on the inside, but today. Yeah, I just kind of slapped the door and moved on to the next task, which was getting the spoon and I, you know, pushed the drawer closed a little bit harder than normally. Is that gender violence? Is that violence? I would have to say it is because I’ve made somebody around me uncomfortable and at any point when I make someone uncomfortable because of my action, then I have to be evaluative and what just happened and where is my part in this? How do I make this one moment in time right, because I can’t apologize for it. It’s already. Over has happened, but I can acknowledge it and then go back to the person who brings this forward and say I’m sorry. Did that bring something up? You know, how can I make this right with you? Are you OK? And listen, take the time. Be empathetic, be compassionate. Listen with curiosity. Because once I believe, I know because I’m a man. I know this stuff. I’m I’m not listening anymore. I’m just waiting for it to end. But if I can go into a better place of listening with curiosity to hear what it is that happened to them and their perception, and in their emotional space and their spiritual space and their physical space. If I can truly listen to that, that is what creates a better space. So for men to change that is to be very aware of what they’re doing and being able to hear sometimes criticism. To who we are or to our action, and to hear from their standpoint rather than in a standpoint of accusations or threatens. You know, sometimes I hear it as well, I thought you were threatening me. I thought you were, you know, coming at me because you wanted an argument. When I really sit down and think. They were just telling me because it made them uncomfortable. And they don’t. They don’t need to be uncomfortable, and they they pay their rent or they pay their mortgage the same as I do. They have a right to be safe. And if that means a right to be safe from me or from any male in the world. We as men have to start taking accountability for for who we are and what we have become because of those stereotypes or those projected expectations of what being a man really is and decide for ourselves what we are going to be as men.
Ilyas
Yeah, I think it brings it back to that idea of responsibility. Right. Like what I’ve really learned from this conversation so far is the idea that men have a responsibility to community, to themselves, to like the people around them. Because, like, with using our masculine traits or even like getting in touch with the more feminine traits. We can connect with the world in a way that makes things better. And when we’re talking about, like a healthy masculinity, I think it’s easy to get caught in the weeds. But to me, it just is talking about making things better. Like it’s can you make it better for the person you love. Can you make it better for? Like the the person who depends on you? Can it make you? Can you make it better for the person on the street who’s walking by and like maybe doesn’t feel threatened? And yeah, I think. That is a big piece of learning for me so far. And so as we’re talking about this responsibility and making things better, can you can you talk a little bit about that because I’m I’m really interested when you said. That there wasn’t a word for I’m sorry. It’s there was like it was. How do I fix this or how? Do I make this right? And that that is a very action oriented thing. That’s a very like, it’s not just like a dismissive like, I’m sorry, can we move on? It’s a like I recognize something happened and I want to make this better. Can you talk a little bit about that in this context?
Strength
Absolutely. And I’m going to use your your your statement that you just made and how can I fix this? Very male dominated sentence. Because we need to fix, we need to. I need to fix it when really we might just need to listen. We just might need to hear what what has happened and then to make it right. How how do I make this right? And and again, it’s not about how I do this. It’s a it’s a community. It’s a community, even if it’s only two people in relationship. It’s that relationship. How do we make this friend, you know, I’m willing to do what’s necessary. To make this right, but I don’t know where to walk. Can you help me? Can we have conversation, dialogue about what can happen to make this right, you know? And it’s a very simple thing. Sometimes when you think about the language that we use, like, it’s either to fix it or how are we going to make this right? You know, I I can fix it. I can just put a band-aid on it now. It’s done now go. Because I’m a guy and that’s what I do. Or we could be fully rounded in that idea of who we are and have some compassion. Have some. If you take the time to really hear and listen rather than just to say I know. And have no curiosity in what they’ve gone through. You know, I I go to work and one of the things that I’ve noticed and I’ve seen. Is there’s a woman outside at her truck or at the the at the company Van who’s got a whole bunch of boxes in the van. And I was going to go out one day and ask if they needed help. And I thought, you know, that’s a very kind thing to do, is to go out and ask if they need some help. And as I was going out there, I had to change my mind. That woman doesn’t need help. She certainly doesn’t need my help to carry a box. She’s strong enough. She’s fully capable of finding a place to put it down. She knows how to open a door. She can walk up and down stairs. You know, there’s there’s nothing that that woman cannot do. So who am I to think that I need to go out there and offer help because she needs it? So instead I changed that one word of need. Would you like some help? Would you like some help with this? I have some time. You know I’m coming here. Would you like some help with these boxes. Oh, absolutely. She. She was more than welcome. But if I had come out and asked her if she needed help. You know, she could. No, I don’t need your help. You know, I can do this just fine. But I asked in a different way and it’s very important when we’re thinking about, like, the lack of an apology rather than the effort to to make it right, we have to make the effort. We can’t just assume that everyone around us knows that I want to be a good man. I have to walk the walk. I have to change. I have to improve. I have to discard some things that I used to have. We have to go through this total inventory of what it means to be a man in my own eyes, as the individual holding that position of being a man, I have to make that choice, and in doing so I’m actually exercising part of that man. I’m. I’m in control. I am in control of who I am. And I will do the best I can to make everyone around me comfortable with me being a man. And hopefully..
Ilyas
And sorry, you know, I think that that to me really speaks of something we were talking about earlier, which is like this idea of acknowledging personhood. It’s like the the simplest thing. But they the the woman you’re trying to help her, you wanted to help was like is a person and she she’s fully capable of doing things. For herself and so like being able to come in and asking if she she wanted help as opposed to needed help. Like you’re acknowledging like she’s. She can carry a box. She can do all those things. And like you’re you’re offering support, but you’re not kind of coming in with the idea that like, I’m a man. You’re a woman. So let me do this for you because. Because you’re a woman. Yeah. Yeah. And you were talking about taking inventory and kind of. For for men to address these sorts of things in themselves, and so if you were to be talking to. To a man who wants to change, or a teenager, or a boy, or if it if there’s a difference between what you would say to each of them, like what would be 1 tip that you would give them to be able to take that sort of inventory and figure out like how they can change their own potentially unhelpful parts of masculine expression into something more, more healthy and more helpful.
Strength
I know within our communities we all have resumes. We have a resume. I have a resume, for instance a resume. When I was working with the criminal aspect of our communities and they’re trying to get away from being criminal, I was like write a resume. So like I can’t, but I’ve never worked, you know? Like I’m like, OK, well then let’s use what you have and write that resume. You know, like, if you’re, you’re good at budgeting, you never ran out of your substance. You know, if you’re conflict resolution because people never beat you up and you never got into a lot of fights, you know, there’s different ways of looking at who we are. And if we go through an idea of writing our own resume, writing out who we are. You can really see the essence of who you are to go over that inventory list of what I do, what my actions are and and the biggest part of it. And all of it is about understanding our willingness. What is my willingness to change? What is my reason for changing? You know, having that purpose in the change. Is very important to create a different space for everyone to create a different space for myself. To find a way that I can be at peace with my own actions. Because you know, if I were someone that was always violent or became violent, my spouse, my partner, girlfriend. And I justified it. That doesn’t make me feel good afterwards, and I’ve heard a lot of men say this. I never really felt good after doing it. It was just something. I did in the moment. Is to really be in that space within yourself to know yourself. And that’s not an easy thing. It’s so easy to say, but it’s not an easy thing, because when you’re in that heated moment, it’s not when you want to cool down. It’s when you want to assert assert yourself, and so in a way of going back to this, changing the idea of all of these behaviors and ideologies. One of my best suggestions would be to sit with like minded people. To find like minded people that are holding groups that are having service that are creating community space, you know and to sit with them and to examine how it is they do it, how do they? How do they walk? How do they carry themselves in those situations or in those stories, if you sit around with a bunch of men and we’re all talking about, you know, this is what I used to do to this is what I do now or, you know, I never really understood this behavior and have that dialogue with other men to carry that dialogue forward. I think that’s the one of the. Biggest and best ways to find change is to be able to find where it is. And to bring that home.
Ilyas
Yeah, I think. That that seems like such a fundamental first step. There’s a quote from a TV show that I really like where one of the characters is really like he’s he’s like accommodating and he’s able to do things and like one of the characters asks him like, how can you do this? Like, how can you change so easily? And he says once you know who you are changing for other people isn’t really that big of a deal. And I think that really speaks to what you were talking about, this idea that like if you have this core of like knowledge and understanding and just of believe in yourself then like being able to accommodate other people being able to. Accommodate other persons. Isn’t that big of a deal. It’s it’s not interacting or interfering with who you are as a man. It’s not kind of changing the status of masculinity that you hold. It’s really just like recognizing that there are other people around you who have, like, different experiences and trying not to do. Not to do harm and and I really like what you said about carrying these conversations forward and. In circles where where men are having these conversations, and hopefully this can be the start of someone’s conversation and maybe they can carry this forward to to their their social circle and kind of see if other men are interested in talking, but what what can, what can men do to bring this to their their social circles? Like is there a way that they can find a place that’s having these discussions. Is there like a way that they can bring this to the other men in their life to start having this discussion where they they can feel like they can say these things and like, admit essentially that they have compassion and feeling and all of these things that make life kind of especially meaningful and like really form a connection as opposed to kind of have that sort of harmful masculinity, fire or burn them when they try and do that.
Strength
I think we all are pretty good judgement of character when we’re in in certain space. We know the men that we’re not supposed to go and talk to about this because they’re just going to blow up. There’s going to be something that’s going to be a repercussion and at the same time. You have to wonder if that person is still fighting with their idea of being a kind person too. But they’re just not allowed to. You know what flashes into my mind are those that are born into, say, the gang life. You know, if they’re born into it and it runs in their family and they’re they’re forced to be this way. Then are you able? Are you going to be able to change that person? Or is that person able to change? Are they? Are they willing to go through that change? You know. It’s it’s. It’s a very scary conversation in some instances, like you’re leading towards stairs because we don’t want to be burned. We don’t want to be harmed by those men that that don’t believe in being kind or it’s not a part of being a man. So, you know, we don’t have to worry about it. But when you do find that person, that’s when you can have that conversation, you know, and try to formulate a question question that goes across the the realm of you know what does it mean to be a man you know, and to ask that one question alone to to any man out there. What does it mean to be a man to you? And has it changed since you first learned this? You know, those two questions can lead into one heck of a conversation because they’ll always go into the conversation. This is what I grew up as and this is what I’ve decided. You know, this is how I’m going to decide who I am and another hard part of those conversations. One of the things I would ask men to do. Is to evaluate how many times they said yeah, but they made me. You know what made you react to Sir? May be angry. Get frustrated. You know what makes you do that? Is it really them? Is it the people around you? Is it, you know, my girlfriend made me angry so. Or was it the fact that you decided that that was going to make you angry and not involve any other strategies to stay away from being angry at that moment to being into a space of curiosity or a space of kindness. You know, we make the choice regardless of what people do. We make the choice to be angry. We make the choice to react. We make the choice. That’s why the mind is in my head, not yours. You know? And I can’t give that power away to anyone, because nobody in this world can make me be angry. I either choose to be angry because of my ideology, how I was raised, the things I was taught. All of those things can be within myself. And those will make me angry because these people are not agreeing with what I already know is right. What is it? So again, back to the self evaluation. Where did I learn to be a man? How did I learn to be a man? What kind of man have I learned to be? And then evaluate and go forward from there. What parts do you wish to change? What parts do you see immediately that need changing? And again, we can have that conversation with other men.
Ilyas
Yeah, and. I think that idea of like they made me do it, this person caused me to feel this way. I feel like that’s a very kind of like rationalization of like something afterwards, like how can I explain my behavior in a way that like keeps me being OK? Or being the good, the good guy and? That that was really kind of touching to me because oftentimes we talk about Stoicism when it’s combined with, like, traditional forms of masculinity, so that that idea of, like, not showing emotions. But, what occurred to me is that, like in Stoicism, the philosophy, that’s exactly what you were saying. It’s our internal processes that make us kind of react to the world in a certain way. And so, like, if we’re if even if we’re trying to be like a a manly man and we’re we’re kind of acting in anger and we’re kind of saying these people have made me do it, we’re not even, we’re not even kind of living up to that expectation and that because this Stoicism is like. Is different than the way it’s being enacted. Yeah, and.
Strength
And anger is not an anger is not the first emotional reaction. Anger is a secondary feeling or reaction, because we’re either hurt, confused. For hurt and confused, or one or the other, we can become angry. But we’re not angry at first. We’re either hurt, somebody said something hurt my feeling or challenged my manhood, which is in turn, you know, a little bit of hurt. And then we become angry. And then we do. So to really get into that idea of what’s creating my anger when we have our traditional circles and we have, we pass the feather around one person in that circle. Will talk about their gerbil. Will talk about their cat. Will talk about their bird. Willl talk about, you know, the way the cars honk outside. And some people will get angry. OK. Because this person is taking up so much space that they become angry and what we ask people to do at that moment is to really ask yourself, why am I getting angrier? What is driving my anger, you know? Is it the threat to my manhood? Is it the threat to my masculinity? Is it a threat to me at all? Once you really start to get an understanding of that, you know just on a human being status. Can really evaluate or can really move you to a place of change.
Ilyas
Yeah. And to to bring it back to that idea of responsibility, responsibility for community. We’re responsible for our anger. We’re responsible for our reactions and actions and the effects that we have on the people around us. And so if we’re justifying kind of our anger as like maintaining our masculinity or whatever it may be, and we’re justifying the harmful effects. We’re looking at our our fire in the wrong way. We’re looking at our fire as the thing to burn as opposed to the thing to warm. And I think that’s a message that gets lost and it’s something that I’ve learned. And then I’m actually taking away from this conversation. Is that like? That that fire is there to warm, and if it’s, if it’s causing people to burn. It’s a reflection of me and that I need to kind of accommodate that for people in my life because I have a duty to warm, if that makes sense.
Strength
Yeah, absolutely. And if we’re not receptive to those things coming towards us. You know, when we see people’s faces, when we hear their reactions, their comments, when you say, oh, you’re just a or you’re like one of those people and you know, it totally negates the inward reflection that we need when it comes to change. When it comes to moving the idea of healthy masculinity forward. You know, even the the person that that personally annoys me the most I have to show compassion towards and I do that by understanding what it is about them that is annoying me. What is it? Is it really them? Or is it something within myself that says that what they’re doing is wrong or challenging my status as a person or a man?
Ilyas
Yeah, I think that’s an incredibly powerful note to end on. Just the idea that like. Taking that time to self reflect and trying to figure out that effect that you have on the community and realizing that it’s your responsibility to act and react and engage in a way that’s helpful so that you can support the people in your life so that you can show compassion so that you can like be the. Positive influence in your community that pulls everyone together and further up into. Into a better life because that is masculinity as well. And that’s like, yeah.
Strength
And you did it fairly well there with the idea of responsibility. Because responsibility as I know it is broken down differently, the colonial way of responsibility is get a job, get your education, and make your bed do your dishes before you go to bed. You know, make sure the floor is swept. You know that’s responsibility. That shows a very responsible person. And the understanding of responsibility that I have, it’s broken down differently. It’s more about our response-ability. How am I able to respond to those things around me so, and the idea of my responsibility, how am I able to respond to to every situation that I come up with? And that truly creates a responsible person, because you’re response able. And with that masculinity it’s it’s driven by that responsibility to have healthy masculinity is to be able to be assertive and to be kind in my response and the ability to respond. To have all of that put together.
Ilyas
And I am 100% certain that there are going to be men who listen to this and have a better ability to respond based off of the the wisdom that you’ve share today’s Strength. So thank you so much for for taking the time to talk with us and we really appreciate the the wisdom and knowledge that you brought to this conversation.
Strength
Great. Thank you. [Mohawk]
Men’s Engagement in Gender-Based Violence Prevention – view pdf
The Involved Father & Gender Equality Project – view pdf
Preventing violence against women and girls through male engagement – view pdf
Allies for Gender Equality Toolkit: Enhancing Intersectionality in Engaging Men and Boys – view pdf
Youth Engagement in Preventing Sexual Exploitation and Human Trafficking – view pdf
Sexual abuse is a widespread problem in societies across the world. In Canada, 1 in 3 women and 1 in 11 men will be sexually abused at some point over their lifetime. We’ve talked about many of the common reactions to sexual assaults, but these don’t cover all possible reactions. Moreover, people’s responses to a traumatic event might change over time. So, when it comes to more longstanding challenges, one question remains. Can sexual abuse cause depression?
In the past, we have talked about the different kinds of sexual abuse that can happen to someone. But, here we can work with a broad definition of sexual abuse. According to the American Psychological Association, this encompasses any undesired sexual activity where the perpetrator uses force, threats, or takes advantage of victims unable to give consent. This framework is helpful, but it is important to recognize that there are many ways this can manifest. This includes indecent exposure, unwanted touching, and forced sexual intercourse. Some people may even experience sexual abuse without knowing that it happened.
Depression, on the other hand, is a medical diagnosis. It is more than just feeling sad. In fact, there is a list of symptoms required to meet the criteria for a depressive episode or for a depressive disorder. These mainly come from a book called the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders (DSM). On top of a depressed mood, this includes things like:
Not all of these have to be met for someone to be clinically depressed. However, the more that are present, the more severe the depression is. Someone may just have one episode of depression through their whole life, or it may be something that comes back from time to time. Either way, there are ways to cope with depression, including using medications and psychotherapies. There are also ways to help other people who are living with depression.
The short answer is probably yes. The longer answer is that there is a correlation, but to know whether it is a direct causation is hard because not everyone who gets sexually abused becomes depressed. In mental health, there often is a combination of factors that come together to make someone vulnerable to becoming unwell. This is known as the stress-vulnerability model. Essentially, every person has a mixture of genetic vulnerabilities or strengths that interact with risk or protective factors in their environment. So, the end result is different for each person because of their unique position in life.
It is clear that there is a link between childhood sexual abuse and depression. For adult survivors, the question can sexual assault cause depression is less clearcut. The prevalence rate for depression among adult survivors of sexual abuse is between 13-51%. This varies when looking at specific populations. One meta-analysis (when a bunch a scientific studies are examined together) found that, for an experience of sexual abuse at any point during someone’s lifetime, the prevalence of depression is around 39%.
One way of measuring the likelihood that something occurs for a reason other than chance is by looking at odds ratios. These are the proportions of people in one group who experience something when compared to another group. An odds ratio of 1.0 is an equal occurrence among the 2 groups. However, odds ratios of 0.5 or 2.0 mean that something was twice as likely to happen in one of the groups than the other.
The same meta-analysis from above looked at lifetime sexual abuse and adolescent/adult sexual abuse compared with populations who hadn’t been sexually abused. The odds ratios for these 2 groups were 3.87 and 3.25 respectively. While they are similar, they show a slightly less likelihood of developing depression among people who aren’t sexually abused as children. Keep in mind that the lifetime group includes sexual abuse from any point in someone’s life, so the odds ratio for childhood sexual abuse is probably even higher. With that said, the connection between sexual assault and depression is considerable regardless of the age the abuse happens.
When we ask “can sexual abuse cause depression,” it raises a complex issue. Many people who experience sexual abuse do also experience depression. Especially in the time right afterwards. But does this mean that they are stuck with these emotions forever? Not necessarily. Post traumatic growth after sexual abuse provides a hopeful outlook for someone who is in the depths of their emotions.
While depression is a completely understandable and normal reaction to being sexually assaulted, asking can sexual assault cause depression misses a big piece of nuance with the topic. Yes, sexual violence is a risk factor in the stress-vulnerability model, but being aware of the protective factors (or buffers) against depression are important parts of healing.
Maintaining hope that help is out there can make a big difference in someone’s healing journey. To use the academic language of the meta-analysis looking at sexual abuse and depression: “trauma help-seeking samples had significantly smaller [odds ratios for depression] than community samples”. This means that, compared to the general population, those who look for support after sexual abuse are much less likely to suffer from depression afterwards. So, if you or someone you know has been sexually abused, please reach out for help. We wrote a whole handbook about your rights after being sexually abused. Additionally, Canada’s Victim’s Services Directory can help find a resource near you.
Men come in various shapes and forms. One man may look, act, and feel very differently than any other man. However, when it comes to the expectations that are put on men, especially in the West, there are some similarities. Today’s article explores how traditional versions of masculinity, based in power over others, cause problems for everyone involved. This type of manhood is also called “hegemonic masculinity”. Its unhelpful standards of being a man don’t serve anyone well. Whether it is because a man believes he has to “dominate” women, or feels stressed because he doesn’t. So, redefining masculinity may be in order.
There is a saying that is so prevalent in society that it has become almost a bad meme. Telling someone to “be a man” comes with so much baggage that it can be difficult to unpack it all. But, since this usually refers to the characteristics of a power-based masculinity, we can make some assumptions. Firstly, when someone says this, they might be referring to being more assertive or confident. They could also be saying that the man in question has to hide his emotions or “be fearless” in the face of danger. Maybe it is more openly toxic and refers to turning people into sexual objects to be ‘won’, or into threats to be beaten down.
The second assumption that we can make is that the man who lives up to these expectations of manhood is going to hurt himself, and possibly others. Men who believe in this type of traditional masculinity are more likely to experience poor health outcomes than women or nonconforming men. This can include alcohol abuse, avoiding mental health treatment, or not getting preventative healthcare. They are also more likely to harm others. This can include through bullying, physical violence or sexual violence.
This isn’t exactly new information. We have talked in the past about how toxic masculinity, rape culture, and rape myths have harmful effects. But, what happens when a man feels pressured to conform to these power based versions of manhood but doesn’t feel like he does?
When a man feels stressed about the expectations put on him to be ‘manly’ in the traditional sense, it can be harmful as well. Academics have studied this through the lens of “gender role strain/stress theory”. Essentially, what they look for are the different ways that men feel expectations to act a certain way but don’t feel they live up to it. There are 3 main terms to keep in mind with this topic: discrepancy, dysfunction, and trauma.
Gender role discrepancy is the actual difference between a man’s perception of what is manly versus their own expression of manhood. In this case, a man might not feel man enough. This leads to problems ranging from ridicule and violence to depression and substance abuse. This is called gender role dysfunction. If this becomes too much, especially in fields like professional sports and the military, then it can lead to long lasting problems in the man himself. These are completely separate from the problems he might cause for other people. This is called trauma strain.
The idea in this theory is that the discrepancy is what causes the subsequent dysfunction and trauma. This can come from a man’s own internal feelings of not being enough or from other people enforcing traditional masculinity on him. While gender expectations are hard on everyone, some research has shown that men have worse behavioural and mental health outcomes from their gender role discrepancy than women. Men who believe they are different than what a man should be, and feel stressed out by that, may try to counteract that feeling by doing things they believe a ‘real’ man would do. This can include riskier sex (and the STIs that can come with that), physical assaults, and sexual violence.
Men are necessary in life, beyond their biological contributions to it. And manhood doesn’t have to be bad. Some aspects of traditional masculinity are required in some settings. This is much like how trauma can teach us lessons that only work within the setting of that trauma. For example, a soldier might need to be stoic in battle. But, it’s also important for him to show feelings once he’s safe at home.
Importantly, some men don’t face the same harmful effects by not conforming. These men are not stressed out about their nonconformity to traditional masculinity. So, in other words, the gender role dysfunction only comes if someone is worried about the initial discrepancy. And that is an incredibly hopeful point.
When talking to (other) men, being able to accept them for their own expression of manhood can be healing for everyone involved. Since men play such a big role in enforcing the roles of manliness onto other men, we have the ability to change what we enforce. A man being able to express his emotions can challenge the script of a man’s need for rigid emotional control. And men who are comfortable with other men doing the same create spaces for healthy masculinity.
A man going into social work or nursing can help to flip the script on what is expected of a man in society. A man in the military or professional sports who is a role model of healthy masculinity can help others become more comfortable doing redefining masculinity for themselves. Women and other allies have roles in reinforcing the value of these other types of masculinities as well. Just remember that a true man is whoever identifies themselves as such.
Our goal at Vesta is to eradicate rape culture. Since men are traditionally left out of interventions to prevent sexual violence, we think that they need to be integrated into the discussion. When a man reads a post like this, we hope that he takes his role to heart. Every action that he makes around his peers and all his internal thoughts about what makes a man can help prevent the type of masculinity discussed here that hurts men and women alike. It may feel like a drop in the ocean, but with enough drops we can drown out the myths and harmful expectations that lead to sexual assault. So, whether you are a man reading this or an ally, remember to do your part in the conversation redefining masculinity. Even if it is just one drop in the bucket.
Normally, when people talk about trauma, it is framed through its negative impacts. This is especially true when the trauma comes from sexual assault, where Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, PTSD, is a very real concern for many people. However, a less talked about outcome of trauma is called post traumatic growth. So, how can someone experience post traumatic growth after sexual assault?
First, a definition. Post traumatic growth is the process of making positive changes after a traumatic event. This is usually done through someone’s engagement with a meaning making structure. Post traumatic growth is a tangible outcome, arising through a constantly changing process. Someone can be anywhere on a spectrum of growth after a traumatic event, meaning that there are different levels of improvements. There is no universally accepted definition of post traumatic growth. The general consensus is that it’s based on how well a survivor can cope after a trauma. This includes having a strong sense of self and others. Survivors often create meaning out of their traumas as well. Post traumatic growth is usually measured along 5 domains:
In this article, we start by will exploring what trauma is. The, we will look at how it can be mediated by internal and external factors of resilience. Lastly, we examine the ways someone can experience post traumatic growth both generally and specific to sexual assault.
Trauma has taken on a colloquial life of its own. People talk about being traumatized about how bad a movie was or by how long a specific task took. Trauma in the context of someone’s mental health is very different. It is defined as something that happened or happens that affects someone’s long-term well-being and/or functioning. Defined more broadly, trauma is an event that overwhelms someone’s ability to cope with the event that happens. By every definition, sexual assault in any form can cause trauma to someone. However, different people have different responses to a traumatic event. Some people will rationalize it, like we have talked about before with unacknowledged sexual assaults. For others, traumatic events will cause sudden and long lasting changes in their behaviours. We have also talked more about commonly misunderstood reactions to sexual assault in another article.
Trauma isn’t an abnormal experience. Some sources say that the majority of men and women will experience some sort of trauma throughout their lives. Moreover, in Canada, 1 in 3 women and 1 in 11 men will experience sexual assault in their lifetime. However, rates of PTSD are much lower than that (approximately 8.6% for women and 4.1% for men). So, what causes some people to experience higher rates of debilitation from trauma? The short and simple answer is communities and individuals working together.
Many lists talking about resilience will focus on the individual’s sense of self. Do they attribute the negative event to something that they did or something impermanent that was out of their control? Are they critical of themselves or do they show themselves compassion? Do they get caught up in the whirlwind of emotions or can they ground themselves in the current moment? As a piece of education, the second part of all those questions are associated with individual resilience. However, people’s internal resilience and their experience of trauma vary. But, regardless of the person’s individual abilities, being negatively affected by trauma doesn’t mean that they have failed. On the contrary, it might mean the systems they are living in failed them.
Michael Ungar talks about the individual factors of resilience as well. These include things like persistence and adaptation. But one thing that he introduces into the equation is society’s role in creating resilience. A main tenet of his theory of resilience is that resilience only happens in the face of adversity, which makes sense on the face of things. Many parts of life require resilience in order to make it through them, even ones that are not traumatic.
However, Ungar also includes pieces in resilience that go beyond what is typically put on the individual. Things like someone’s relationships (familial, friendly, or otherwise) play a key role in resilience. So do things like social justice. This would mean that the person’s faith in the world around them, and its proven ability to protect them, plays a role in someone’s resilience. We can add this to something like access to basic resources, where it’s a lot harder to be ‘resilient’ when you’re lacking food, water, and/or shelter. Also, a sense of cohesion with your community plays a role in resilience too. This allows you to feel like you are part of something bigger than yourself. In other words, you have meaningful connections to the world around you. So, there is often more than meets the eye when it comes to being resilient.
We’ve explored what trauma and resilience are. Now, the main question of our article comes into focus: how can someone experience post traumatic growth after sexual assault? To start, we will look at post traumatic growth in general. Then, we will go deeper specifically into post traumatic growth after sexual assault.
There are many factors that go into post traumatic growth. Much like resilience, there are individual and group factors at play.
For an individual, being able to manage the emotions that come up after a trauma is an important part of moving towards post traumatic growth. This process involves interrupting the cycle of automatic and usually negative thoughts that can come up after a trauma. This sort of thinking is usually called rumination. Controlling the rumination to make it a more constructive train of thought can be an important way of coping with the distress after a trauma.
Sometimes, a survivor of a trauma might have to change the way they see the world in order to accommodate the new life experience. This can be integrated into a new worldview that makes sense of the traumatic event. Ideally, the new narrative “recognizes the complexity of the world”. A key individual factor of post traumatic growth is examining one’s core beliefs. This can be distressing in the short term, and reinforces the need for positive coping.
The other side of the coin, so to speak, are the social factors that influence post traumatic growth. Writing, praying, and/or talking about the experience are important parts of this process. They can lead to the creation of positive social networks around the person who has experienced the trauma. Self disclosure can be influenced by the survivor’s connection to their culture in ways that affect their ability to develop post traumatic growth. This is similar to someone’s connection to their community discussed above under the social aspects of resilience.
One direct benefit of self disclosure is having social support and role models for change. These role models can be a huge source of wisdom and inspiration for survivors of trauma. This reinforces the value of talking with people who have gone through similar life experiences. Especially those who have experienced growth from their own trauma. More broadly, connecting to one’s culture or society at large can be a way to continue forming connections. This can help in creating a renewed sense of wisdom that can come along with post traumatic growth.
All in all, these new ideas form a worldview that is rich and complex. They recognize the survivor’s strengths and resources. Moreover, they also highlight the survivor’s possibilities for the future.
Post traumatic growth after sexual assault is very similar to post traumatic growth in general, but with a few nuances. One thing to keep in mind is that post traumatic growth and PTSD are not mutually exclusive. This means someone can experience symptoms of PTSD and post traumatic growth concurrently. The hope for many in this situation is that they can recover from the acuity of the trauma and move further towards post traumatic growth. This can be done by using adequate professional, social, and intrapersonal supports,
For sexual assault survivors, one study found 2 strong internal predictors of post traumatic growth. These were a disruption of core beliefs and perceived control over recovery. A disrupted core belief is when someone questions their core assumptions about the world. These beliefs can be things like “I don’t deserve much attention or respect.” or “Nobody I desire would desire me if they really got to know me.” Perceived control over recovery focuses on someone’s belief that they have control over their own life after a sexual assault.
It may be helpful to show an example of this. One survivor noted that the experience “made me stronger in who I am because I knew it wasn’t my fault”. Notice that the survivor in this situation emphasizes the control over their recovery. They also don’t engage in self-blame for the sexual assault. Self-blame after sexual assault is something that can prevent post traumatic growth. It is important to note that sexual assault is never the survivor’s fault. Often it is rape myths and rape culture that contribute to a survivor’s self blame.
The same study found two other interpersonal predictors of post traumatic growth after sexual assault. These are religious coping and positive social coping. They put into perspective the value of having a supportive community behind a survivor. Religious coping is often associated with a way of making meaning out of the world. The survivor could find solace with a group of people who share and model similar positive core belief structures. Additionally, positive social coping involves both problem-solving and emotional regulation activities. In line with both of these is the role of disclosing the trauma. Survivors are more likely to experience post traumatic growth if they accepted the assault after the fact. A piece of that process can be speaking about it with their community. A further step that many survivors take is to engage in activism or political action after their trauma.
These are some big picture things that can help with moving towards post traumatic growth. But, it is important to keep in mind some of the other aspects of resilience that were talked about before. There are differences between resilience and post traumatic growth. Resilience is usually a shorter-term solution and post traumatic growth is a longer-term change. However, things like a survivor’s access to basic needs and cohesion with their community are important to factor into their capacity to have post traumatic growth. Not having these won’t necessarily stop someone from growing after trauma. But social factors like poverty and the intersections of societal oppressions can make it harder for a survivor to be ‘resilient’. Which makes it harder to move towards post traumatic growth.
Post traumatic growth is the experience of positive changes after a traumatic event. Survivors of sexual assault often will be traumatized by their experience. However, that trauma doesn’t mean that the person will be stuck forever. People can grow after trauma. Being able to connect to a survivor’s community while reframing their own internal ruminations are ways to help make this happen . And, through using the strategies for resilience from this article, the survivor in your life might see some hope at the end of their experience.
Rape myths and rape culture can often lead to confusion. Survivors might not even know they were assaulted. This is because of messages from society or friends that counteract the realities of consent. Research has shown that up to 73% of college women who are survivors of rape don’t acknowledge the sexual assault. Moreover, half of the women from one study reported experiences in line with sexual assault but didn’t know they were assaulted. This is what is called unacknowledged sexual assault.
So what is unacknowledged sexual assault? Basically, it is when sexual activities meet the criteria for sexual assault but the survivor doesn’t consider it to be assault. Unacknowledged survivors in general may be more likely to call the assault “miscommunication” or “bad sex”.
We spoke recently about some commonly misunderstood reactions to sexual assault. That will tie into this article through responses like explanation or normalization. Now let’s explore some reasons why someone might not consider themselves to have been sexually assaulted. Even with evidence to the contrary.
To start, if you haven’t read about the rape myths and rape culture linked above, please go through those as a precursor to the rest of this article. For those who are familiar with them, you may have an idea of why so many sexual assaults go unacknowledged. A major factor to sexual assault being unacknowledged is when the survivor knows the perpetrator. This is especially true when the survivor has been in a romantic relationship with the perpetrator, and may have consented to sex in the past. Research shows that they might believe that, in those relationships, “sexual activity would be considered appropriate and expected”.
Survivors of unacknowledged sexual assault may also have a different idea of what a sexual assault is. These “scripts” that survivors face may be informed by rape myths and rape culture. For example another factor in unacknowledged sexual assault is if there isn’t physical violence during the assault. Another one is if the survivor doesn’t follow the rape myth of resisting the assault. We have written in the past about different reactions to trauma, including freezing, and how they don’t mean that an assault didn’t happen.
Unacknowledged survivors are more likely to be younger. They are less likely to know a friend who was sexually assaulted. And they are less likely to report receiving information from friends about sexual assault.
Not acknowledging a sexual assault can be a way a survivor tries to protect themselves. It can lead to feeling less distressed about the event than someone who acknowledges the sexual assault. This might be the first part of a process where the survivor comes to terms with the assault before they are able to label it that way. Unfortunately, there is little evidence in this realm, but oftentimes labelling can be part of the recovery process. But, each survivor will experience their assault differently. And they will have different ways of coping with and/or labelling the experience.
There are a few things that we have good evidence for though. The first being that unacknowledged sexual assault is a risk factor for being victimized again. The survivor may have to go through the same experience with the same partner. Especially if the relationship is maintained and rape myths are not questioned. Also, unacknowledged assault survivors are less likely to reach out for support. This can include medical, mental health, or support services. This may come from fears of sharing the experience or even for blaming themselves for the assault. A study found that only 3% of people who acknowledged being a survivor of a sexual assault didn’t disclose this to anyone. On the other hand, over 1 out of 4 people who didn’t acknowledge an assault happening had never disclosed the incident.
Many of these experiences happen on a university campus. Moreover, one study found that 80.5% of college females didn’t acknowledge a sexual assault as such. Major risk factors are a belief in rape culture and rape myths, a lack of social conversations about sexual assault, and being young. So, campuses can play a major role by opening up these conversations with their students. Offices of the prevention of sexual violence are key players in this space, but everyone plays a role. If you haven’t spoken about sexual assault with the people in your life, read through one of our guides. You can also share this article with those close to you to open up a conversation.
People normally think that there are safe and effective ways to report sexual assault online. However, VESTA stands alone as the first fully online third-party reporting tool for sexual assaults. The VESTA Reporting tools can help in a variety of settings. Campuses, workplaces, or community organizations can get support for those who have been assaulted. They can simply use our tool to document the incidence. They can also either share anonymous statistical data or file a full police report. VESTA can help survivors connect to resources in their community as well, so that nobody has to recover from sexual assault alone. Then, when our communities start to heal, we can move step by step towards eradicating rape culture from the world.
After a sexual assault, there is a social script that dictates what many people think would be “normal” activity. There are usually some variations in this. It can include the survivor fighting back during the assault. It could also say the survivor should cut ties with the perpetrator immediately afterward if they know each other (which they usually do). Or that all survivors get examined at a hospital for their Sexual Assault Evidence Kit as soon as possible. There is also an expectation that all these steps are done logically. The survivor “must” also never doubt that the assault itself occurred. But these are not always examples of common reactions to sexual assault.
We will look deeper into how unrecognized sexual assaults can lead to cycles of abuse for vulnerable peoples in a later article. However, in today’s post, we will explore how rape myths and rape culture make valid responses by survivors seem unusual.
This article is adapted from the Women’s College Hospital’s online course. For more information, complete Understanding the Commonly Misunderstood Reactions to Sexual Assault.
Normalization happens when a survivor tries to put the assault into the context of what is considered “normal” activities. This idea of “normal” is usually fueled by rape culture, which hides the fact that a sexual assault legitimately happened. This can be made worse when the survivor knows the perpetrator, which they do in the majority of cases. Some research says this is because people in intimate relationships believe sex is “expected“. Plus, social scripts usually tell us that sexual assaults are committed by strangers. So, when the perpetrator is known to the survivor, then it might not fit their idea of what a sexual assault “should” be.
Explanation is when a survivor tries to rationalize what happened to them and explain away the assault. This can happen especially when there is an existing relationship between the survivor and the perpetrator. Explanations are usually fueled by rape myths and grounded in rape culture.
When a survivor uses minimization, they usually refer to another situation that could have been worse. They recognize that they said no and that they didn’t consent, but think about how they might have “gotten off easy” compared to someone else.
When a survivor engages in dramatization, they will openly talk about the assault. This might lead others to feel like the assault didn’t affect them, but in reality it’s a part of processing the assault and healing from it. Dramatization could lead the survivor to think that those around them “must be sick of hearing about it”. This can cause feelings of shame. However, connecting with others and being open to talking with helpful people may allow a survivor to bring in the help they need to recover.
Suppression is the opposite of dramatization. When a survivor suppresses the assault, they try not to think about it. They may do everything they can to keep the memory of the assault out of their mind and disconnect from their supports who might know about the assault. Being able to know how to support and talk with someone who has gone through a sexual assault might be helpful in supporting the survivor in your life.
Dissociation is when a survivor becomes disconnected from their body. They may feel empty, numb, or nothing at all. We’ve described this before as being “a dream-like state”. During dissociation, your brain filters some experiences from consciousness to protect you. This can lead to memory loss, feelings of surreality or detachment.
Survivors may have changes to their consensual sexual activities after a sexual assault. Some people may engage in more, riskier sex. Others may shut down and not be able to have consensual sex. The whole spectrum represents real, valid responses to sexual assault. Being able to recognize changes to someone’s experience might help them process what has happened.
Recognizing the symptoms of trauma and knowing more about reporting are key pieces to healing after a sexual assault. We’ve recently explored the difficulties a survivor may face in reporting a sexual assault, but there is hope. Traditionally, only approximately 5% of sexual assaults are reported to the police. But now, VESTA Anonymous Reporting and VESTA Online Reporting offer trauma-informed ways for survivors to report their experiences. Survivors can use the tools as a way to document their experience for their own benefit. They can choose to use it to report anonymized statistics to campus or relevant authorities. Or they can submit a full police report.
We hope that one day rape culture will be eradicated. And we are trying to play our role in making that happen. When survivors can be supported to access the resources they need to heal, the system will get more information on how to support them. Since no two survivors are the same, the more information the system has, the better it can support those who come forward. When everyone who is sexually assaulted feels they can come forward, our society can heal itself from the ills of sexual violence. Then, that will be the day where an equal society can emerge and rape culture can be left behind.
